Pictorials

these are the kinds of mass meetings that met with aerial raids from the RNA last week.

great pictures

the most intersting and most revolutionary of maoists are the involvement of women force. Imagine creating such force of women in rural areas. Others ofcourse are captivating the whole cities.

Ya, the uniformity — camouflaged by willingness to break out of ‘conditioned existence’. What contradiction! Then again, I was never a fan of American individualism either. I liked my school uniform too.

can these people be labeled as terrorist. who took these pictures? looks like more of a revolutionary than rebels

Also I find it very contradictory that they follow maoism and accept hinduism as inspiration? look at their names. Prachanda, badal, prabhakar just guessing hai feri?

Nayanta ,

Where is the place Bhoktini? And is it Dahi or Mohi? Dahi testo bidi taral ta hundaina ni…how could they get jugs of jugs ? and in the music/songs of Jana Ekata Sanskritik Pariwar were you able to tap your feet atleast? Were those elderly women(one with Chilim) photographed for the first time?

unterrorize please!!!

we do not know how to do it with peace and love huh?

where is bob/marley?

bhoktini: a hill top in katunje ga.bi.sa, 8 hrs from dhading-besi (well thats how long it took me atleast). dahi ra mohi ko consistency ko kura chai nagarau hola yaha. they had jug fulls because they were prepared to feed visitors. yes, i was able to ‘tap’ along to the music :) and i dont know if the elderly women have been photographed before.

did you have a point in all this?

God damn! those rifles look impressive. The girl (singer holding the lyrics) next to the (moaist) keyboardist is pretty cute haina Jazzy Hacker, ki kaso? Guitar khoi timro, jaam haami pani Bhoktini. We now know that not only can they fire those rifles, they can even play the keyboard, wow! I am impressed…how can anyone label them terrorists. Shame on them!

Boy, that SLR digital camera looks a lot like mine…Cannon REBEL (?)

Not much to point out. Just sit back and observe . You have managed take a broader picture though with your captions. Thanks. Stern faces of armed PLA with benign faces of some comrades. I wonder how long they will last. The elderly amass blissful laughter sums up the day. Every ones happy for time being. The school’s class room is it being constructed or destructed?

We should judge not by photos but by actions. This is something that Maoist sympathizers appear to overlook.

Human Right Watch:

“In violation of the laws of war, Maoist forces on February 22 stopped and blew up an ambulance at a roadblock on the Mahendra highway near Kohalpur village, 18 kilometers from Nepalgunj and about a kilometer and a half from the Kohalpur Army Barracks. According to eyewitnesses, the ambulance was returning to the town of Dang with a released patient and a relative after dropping off two patients at a hospital in Nepalgunj. A group of some ten Maoist fighters stopped the ambulance at approximately 2:30 p.m. and demanded to know why the ambulance was defying the bandh. As the ambulance driver and an ambulance company official tried to argue that they had a right to use the road, one of the Maoist fighters threw an incendiary device—most likely a grenade—into the ambulance. The blast caused the oxygen tank on board to explode and blow the roof off the ambulance; this led the Maoist fighters to believe that they were being attacked by the Royal Nepali Army and flee. Under the laws of war, medical transport is protected at all times from attack. The ambulance had been a gift from the Indian government on January 26, and was one of the few local ambulances equipped with an oxygen tank. ”

February 21st 2006, “All government schools in Nepalgunj were closed after a number of explosives, allegedly set by Maoist rebels over the past week, either detonated or were discovered by government troops. The Maoist insurgents have repeatedly demanded that all schools and government offices should cease operations during their indefinite bandh. Local authorities have not stated when the schools will reopen again.”

By Bikash Sangraula (Contributor to The Christian Science Monitor):

“Nepal’s children forced to fight (ABRIDGED)

KATHMANDU, NEPAL — When Maoist forces broke into the house of farmer Pasang Sherpa in eastern Nepal, they were looking for one thing: an able body. They took Mr. Sherpa’s 15-year-old son, Pemba.
Pasang was told that Pemba would be sent to the Dolpa district in far-western Nepal, so that he could serve in the “great people’s war.” But Pemba never made it to Dolpa. Only two months after his abduction last year, he was killed in his home district in a confrontation with the Army. “He died without even understanding what Maoism means,” says a tearful Pasang. “Pemba was a virtuous boy. He used to help me till land,” he adds.
Forced recruitment of children has now become widespread in Nepal’s remote hills, with the introduction some months ago of what the Maoists call “Whole-timers,” or WTs. In rural regions under the rebel thumb, every family must send one member as a WT to aid the rebels’ cause. The job often falls to the most dispensable family member - usually a child.
To escape Maoist atrocities, people with means continue to flee Nepal’s hills en masse to the kingdom’s relatively safer lowlands and cities, and to neighboring India. This has depleted the recruitment pool of adults for Maoists, making them turn to children.
According to one estimate, the number of children under 18 in Nepal’s Maoist insurgency makes up 25 to 30 percent of its total strength, and young girls are a significant presence in the ranks. Total rebel numbers are believed to be around 10,000.
“Until some months ago, rebels used children only as messengers, porters, cooks, and cultural troops,” says Tarak Dhital, program coordinator of Child Workers in Nepal Concerned Centre (CWIN), a nongovernmental organization working for child rights. “More recently, children are being used as soldiers. Most of the Maoist combatants who have surrendered … are teenagers,” he adds.
CWIN estimates that 405 children under 18, including 115 girls, have been killed in the conflict so far. But in a war where keeping count of the dead is difficult, identifying or guessing the age of the dead is a tall order. “There aren’t figures out there, says Hrothgar Stibbon of International Committee of Red Cross. “There is only a war.” ”

Amnesty Internationa UK:

In one incident around 300 Maoists dragged all male villagers above age 15 from their homes at Sumshergunj, Banke district on 9 July 2002. Around 25 people were beaten with clubs, rifle butts and spears and accused of handing over two Maoists to the police who earlier that day had attacked one of the villagers. Two men, Moti Lal Tamauli and Sohan Yadav Ahil died on the spot. Several others were severely wounded.

“Recruitment of children by the Maoists has been reported on a regular basis. Amnesty International has evidence of how children were trained in the use of arms. One 14 year old girl explained how arms training took place during the night by torch light and how during the day, she and other children attended classes.”

“”Impunity is the single most destructive factor affecting the human rights situation. Members of the security forces feel entirely shielded from outside scrutiny for their actions. The heaviest sanction they face is an internal inquiry,” Amnesty International said.”

These are the actions of the Maoists. This is what we are dealing with. The blatant attempt by Maoists smpathizers to romanticize the organisations is an insult to the lives that have been lost.

Yes, we know that the Maoists are human beings, just like the RNA but let us not lose sight of their actions.

Let us not lose sight of the fact that it is the Maoists and not the state that has been waging a 10 year long war in Nepal.

We should remember that the Maoists & RNA are equally to blame for the death of civilian lives.

I really, can not believe the ignorance of Samudaya and this photo article is a perfect example of the position that Samudaya takes.

Shocked, really shocked -and from rich, western educated Nepalis who are fortunate enough to live liberal democracies?

Ian next time be extra dry

Birbhadra,

Do you know what pro-monarchists and maoist sympathsizers and staunchly pro repulicans have in common? Blindness.

and you are?

I am just Ian.

Ian-

Your opinions and the articles you quoted are perfect exampels of the ambivalence and ignorance the world has towards the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist). Can I ask your experience with them outside of third hand sources?

yes, the Maoists are a revolutionary group, and yes it is impossible to defend or condone all of their actions. However, to put them in same category as other terrorist organizations is pure ignorance.

I would say that it is really you who is blind to the reality on the ground; blind to the millions of Nepalis ho support the Maoist movement because it offers a chance for change in a country that so desperately needs it; blind to the fact that the Maoist party is in great part responsible for the political change Nepal has just experienced; also, apparently, blind to the history of revolution because — sadly — revolution is nearly always a bloody event.

However, enough of that. Respect to the photographer, Samudaya, and everyone in Nepal who has given of themselves for a better future. Let us take at least a moment to pay respects and honor to every life that was carelessly lost in this now 60 year struggle for democracy. Please remember that democracy is not the end of struggle rather democracy is the means to struggle.

in the name of justice,

hezekiah allen

Well, you must surely be right to insist it.

I am genuinely curious as to what your experience with the party is? enlighten me…?

Ian I did not see the same kind of ignorance and prejudice when it was Nayantara’s Palpa pictorials. You say the state and Maoists are equally responsible well you should have raised your voice or rather dug around for human rights abuses of the state as well when she was humanising the police in the pictorial. Don’t question others work just because you are unable to understand your own pictorial.

If it logically follows that critical analysis of one side (Maoists) leads to implicit approval of the other (RNA) then i am guilty of ignorance and prejudice.

Of course you are right to say these things because i am wrong, hoina?

Forgot to add Ian I am not shocked, hate to generalize as you have but westerners enjoying capitalist liberal democracies think exactly like you. So much for the logical Ian.

I never said you are wrong. All I said was that you fail to recognize your own prejudices and biases yet you are the first one to point your finger at samudaya for their bias. I feel that is just hypocritical. hoina?

Yes, we would all hate to generalize about others but we do any way. Thats just life, I am afraid.

Pray, tell me what my biases are?

Your biases are that you don’t want to see the Rebel’s as people. Its harder for you to comprehend and sustain your warped view of the maoists. You rather feel comfortable dehumanizing them and just calling them terrorists. Like it or not Ian all these people are Nepalese and they have the most to lose or gain than any of us. This pictorial in no way is condoning what the Maoists are doing or what their tactics are yet you are so uncomfortable that you don’t want to see them as human. If they are human with real problems and real lives and real understanding of what they are fighting for then it is no longer easy for you to stay infront of the computer and think of them as these remote half-crazy people coerced into fighting. That my friend is you bias. That you are so quick on the triger on this pictorial just because it gives a human face and story to the revolution is your bias.

That Maoists have big D**KS, RNA-5inchers and we wont care if YOU had non.

If you say so, Anon, it must be correct.

So what are your biases towards me?

N’Tara,

Rather than sit elsewhere and project unfathomable ignorance borne out of lack of interaction with Nepalis outside of Kathmandu — those fighting day and night to create a just and fair society for future generation, you my friend do an excellent job of engaging with our revolutionaries and capture their moment of joy and celebration which has been far and few for Nepalis ever since Ranas subjected them as mercenaries to the enslaving British colonials two hundred years ago.

My wishes to your continued success in bringing real stories of real revolutionaries from the front.

Here! Here! Well said Mystichacker!

A just and righteous cause is worth the abduction, beatings, rape and killing of innocent villagers for!!!

Here’s to the Maoist revolution in Nepal!!

I fail to comprehend the sympathy towards the ‘rebels’.

People have discredited Ian’s views as irreverent because his ideas may have been perceived through ‘western ideals’. Well, I was born and raised in Nepal and I think the Maoists are nothing more than terrorist. You have to judge them based on their ideology. I’m sure al quida has some valid points too but nonetheless, their philosophy and action makes them terrorist.

We speak out against and vilify the RNA, not because of the individual foot soldiers, but because of the ideals and regime they are defending. The same should be applicable for the ‘rebels’. Yes, they are real people and part of the Nepali landscape, but they are ‘fighting for’ their own cause and not for greater Nepal. Their views do not represent the majority, and they follow a bankrupt ideology which if implement would surly turn Nepal into a ‘failed state’.

The Maoist didn’t establish themselves by spreading the message of hope and equality. They used the very ‘bushist’ tactic of distorted ‘liberty and freedom’ propaganda. And most members of PLA are not there voluntarily. Do you think a 12 year old, kidnapped from the classroom and brain washed with this ‘people’s war’ bullsh*t, actually knows what he’s fighting for?

Someone said we’re dehumanizing them. I say rightly so because they’ve committed very inhumane acts; Baburam, Prachanda and his goons should be judged in the same pedestal as KG and RNA.

What the above pictures depict is not empowering, but rather very sad. It is evidence of generations destroyed defending one man’s f’ed up ideal. Sound familiar?

I will second what Reality Check has just said.

I would hasten to add that my views of the Maoists have been formed from what i have learnt from Nepali people living in Palpa, Dhading, Shindupalchowk, Makwanpur, Ramachapp, Rashuwa and others. My views have been formed from people returning home to their villages to experience Maoism in its full.

I am not sure where my ‘western ideals’ come into it and perhaps someone can tell me but when i learn the things i learn from these districts it makes me sick at what human beings would do to other human beings in the name of a ‘just and righteous’ cause.

Once again, if it logically follows that critical analysis of one side (Maoists) leads to implicit approval of the other (RNA) then i am guilty of ignorance and prejudice.

I think yall are being a bit unfair in crticizing what Ian was pointing out, i don’t think that he was dehumanizing the maosits by reminding us of the crimes they commited, what suddenly its ok to use children as soliders and cut off teachers hands? and to blow up ambulances sounds like thats what you guys are saying, sure i am sure most of us agree with what they were fighting for, but along the way the commited many barbaric acts that have been well documented. Of course someone is going to say what about the state, just because I criticize the maoists dosen’t mean i pardon the state, I hope that as things get worked out eventually the RNA officials will be held accountable along with the police. Since gyane stepped back i feel people have begun to forget what the maoists have been doing all this time.

On a side note,

I was really surprised to learn that of the 13,000 or so people who have voted on http://www.nepalnews.com

69.5% were in favour of the Kings move to restore parliament but a massive 27.3% were against it.

Unsurprisingly, an overwhelming majority were in favour but the figures show that almost 1 in 3 were against the move. I wonder what their reasons could be. Does any one have any ideas?

The number of things wrong with the Maoists are not few. I am especially annoyed by the more senior leaders for whom Communism itself, an armed struggle itself, the waging of war itself, is an end. Some of these leaders are more urban than rural, and are overall more of the same trash that infiltrates the cities. However, RealityCheck and others, you have overly simplified, and yes, biased, view of the Maoists in general, based on the sense of urgency with which you feel the need to remind everyone of their immorality as if we have forgotten, as if we are unaware.

I found these images extremely effective in humanizing the Maoists, in revealing the multi-dimensional human component of the movement, the complexities of our present. Perhaps one would suggest that you need to meet them in person, converse with them in order to grasp this human element more intimately, but I disagree. With a one-dimnesional state of mind, even that would barely help. With a more open mind, these images suffice. I remember hearing from a completely apolitical, well-to-do woman when her husband had been arrested and was missing for a few days, “I would’ve joined the Maoists myself if something had happened to him.” For years we have talked about the less empowered, the manipulated, the oppressed, the ones subjected to injustice. Well, look at their misguided faces, that is what they look like. Demonizing the angry oppressed is antiquity. We are completely capable of recognizing human failures and finding human victories within without claiming to be morally superior to the other.

Cheers to that — the Maoist revolution in Nepal!

You fail to comprehend the ‘sympathy’ towards the rebels exactly because you refuse to look at bigger picture and constantly get enamored by illusory Nepal you were brought up and raised before Maoists germinated their revolutionary seeds. Unfortunately, no amount of Nepalnews analysis is going to cure your nostagia.

The one sided rhetoric of Maoist using wide array of tactic has definitely been of concern, but that does not limit the greater importance of addressing the needs of people falling prey to such ideology — whether Moaism or monarchism.

Whereas the short-sightedness of various commenters here result in embrasing the lesser evil that challenge the lives of Nepali people today, those obsessed with the paranoia of left-inclined ideologies forever dwell in their own self-constructed myth of lumping varidly different political processes of world diagonally apart — only goes to show how they wish to connect back to Nepal using the tools that they are most comfortable with — examples provided by their own government rather than attempting to analyze on specifics of a case.

The pictures are the reality of larger masses willing to die for a cause that would perhaps break people out of accepting limitations. The above pictures are the cause of political reality today. The above pictures are the representation of what the whole Nepal woould be if issues are not addressed now. The above pictures are reminders that this is what innumerous years of autocratic rule and elite governance have led us to and if there is still utter sneering, get ready to say goodbye to the place you were once brought up.

To say it is ONE man’s undoing is to overlook conditions that give rise for such men to exert and execute their power.

The people who go online to read the news, and log on to nepalnews.com to participate in a poll does not represent the Nepali population. That should be obvious.

sarahana
the high resolution pictures you have posted mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to me! It’s out of the context. Towards Ian’s question about the poll, I would reason it is because that the king did something beyond his constitutional authorities

Maoists are out of context? Which world are you living in? The present political reality you see in Kathmandu has been at at the expense of those fighting outside of Kathmandu.

”Well, I was born and raised in Nepal and I think the Maoists are nothing more than terrorist. You have to judge them based on their ideology.”….well you haven’t done urself proud there, oh dear brother.
And your barrelhouse gossip is not gonna get u anywhere either. But nobody can do anything when u ‘think’ maoists are ‘terrorists’ and ur 2 fav. words ‘Bushist’ and ‘rhetoric’ well suit u with ur myth.
Isn’t it BUSHIST in the first place when u borrowed to THINK your rhetoric in the smoke filled barrelhouse where every BANG sounds like Al-Qaeda???
Isn’t it BUSHIST to no-gear basejump to call a ‘bankrupt ideology’ that defines the word Maoist in the barrelhouses of the bronx?
If they didn’t do this[‘The Maoist didn’t establish themselves by spreading the message of hope and equality’] why is that they will soon be partaking in peaceful reconstruction of Nepal? I do not know if the Red’s were when u were in Nepal, now, they will definitely be there if and when you return. And isn’t it BUSHIST to shit in your pants with an imagery that confuses ur slow mind and shout TERRORIST!BOMB!MAOIST!!!SPIDER!!!RAT!…
Isn’t it BUSHIST trying to dehumanise when you are not yourself> an ordinary human, just a lookalike.
You are yet safe brother come out of the barrelhouse where ‘bush’ ‘al qaeda’ terrorists’ ‘Maoists’ ‘Charlie’ ‘Ian’ …serve pot, tea, a shot whatever, its spring outside and you shall see humans and identify urself>>>salvation.

To clarify, I’m not nostalgic over “illusory Nepal I were brought up and raised in”. I’m capable understanding the Nepal that exists now; I will welcome the new Nepal and am more than ready to ‘say goodbye to the place you were once brought up’. My ‘nostalgia’ for my homeland is not dependent on her political existence. I may be displaced but I have spent time with the ‘locals’ during the height of insurgency in dang few years back, so I don’t feel the need to defend my stance.

It may be the ‘eye of the beholder’ effect, but when I look at these pictures, it doesn’t help ‘humanize the rebels’. It has quite an intimidating effect, with the military uniforms, marching with guns and mass gatherings led by cries of ‘laal salaam’. It is as humanizing as an al quida training video.

and, what training video is that, where the elderly and the children could be seen laughing, and the terrorists were putting up a dance performance (propogandic, but nonetheless) for the village?

Using the villege backdrop as a ‘playground’ for their military excercise, while using elderly and childern as human shields, only displays their utter disregard for ‘humanity’.

That wud be the unfortunate tactics they were coerced to exercise THEN i guess!!!

Dang/Nawalparasi/Deukhuri of course, the hotbed of Maoist insurgency. But What gave rise to that — the bondage laborers (mostly Tharus) who toiled day in day out to work as ‘kamaiyan’. If you were with the ‘locals’ as you say, then you must have also seen how the ‘locals’ were being treated by the ‘zamindars’, or maybe we need to redefine ‘locals’ to really understand who the victims are versus the opressors in this case.

‘Doesn’t help humanize rebels…’

Of course not, because you consider PLA foot soldiers to have same degree of loyalty towards an ideology as senior members of politburo. That is where you are wrong, and again, no amount of painting the movement and people who fight, support and sympathize with a single stroke of brush is going to help you understand otherwise. peace!

mystichacker
I am not particularly happy at what is happening in Kathmandu, so don’t put me in the band wagon

Make you own bandwagon for all I care. But, Maoists are NOT out of context! Get that in your head, else you would be pretty disappointed with the ‘happening in Kathmandu’ going forward.

all right, all right! It’s ‘believe it or else’ again

Comrade Mystichacker,

He didn’t say that the Maoists were out of context, he said the photos were out of context. It is a different thing, comrade.

Clearly you are well versed in the Stalinist philosophy of head in sand and bum in air.

Once again, a just and righteous cause is worth the abduction, beatings, rape and killing of innocent villagers for!!!

Here’s to Prachandapath!!!!

Comrade Ian, commenting from Oxford District.

Pradip,

‘believe it or else’ -Isn’t that what the Iraqi information minister was known for?

Thanks, Ian.

Lal Saalam to you — capitalist and semi-feudalist pig!

A perfect example of a short-sighted foreigner who is unable to break-out of his colonial mentality, which would be fine, except that he now continually subjects Nepali people to the traditions that wallow in the misery of the masses, similar to the traditions his own imperialistic government exercised few hundred years ago over native lands, all to leave them bankrupt and squandered.

c’mom d**khead Ian!!!
We want a New Nepal and do not care ‘bout Prachandapath that makes u shit in Oxford, we welcome their effort in our quest. And we do recognise and book-keep their events which will be accounted,rectified, or provisioned otherwise. Raise ur VOICE for New Nepal if u may or go back to playing with ur d**k , come back to our Villages now, and u’ll be TAUGHT how to raise ur voice. Asshole!

what is this?

“because you consider PLA foot soldiers to have same degree of loyalty towards an ideology as senior members of politburo”

But I don’t. I don’t think they are disciples of a communist ideology, but rather renegades out for vengeance. They’re loyal to their immediate commander, who tells them what they’re ‘fighting for’.

Handing guns to children and telling them ‘you’ve been oppressed, now go kill someone’ is NOT going to equalize the disparity, but only create another form of repression.

Why do you assume that just because I don’t support the current insurgency, I’m completely unaware of the cause that brought about this movement? Every revolutionary movement has righteous beginnings but once it gains momentum corrupts into struggle for power. Look at hamas, tamil tigers, or even al queda; anyone who thinks this comparison is a stretch should do some research.

The objective should be to assimilate this population, so they no longer identify themselves as ‘rebels’.

Comrade Reality Check,

“Why do you assume that just because I don’t support the current insurgency, I’m completely unaware of the cause that brought about this movement?”

Well, because I am right and you are wrong -obviously. Simple really. If you are not with us, you are against us and we will make sure you understand that we are right and you are wrong. After all Samudaya.org is a ‘collective’ working towards the promotion of active involvement of young Nepalis in the construction of a New Nepal. We envision our future to be democratic, conducive to independent thinking, progressive, and tolerant of diversity. To this end, our immediate goal is in providing various types of channels through which ideas can be exchanged, information shared, and awareness facilitated.

In light of this, you are wrong and you agree with ‘us.’

Well said r’check if u do understand the developmments in Kathmandu, ”The objective should be to assimilate this population, so they no longer identify themselves as ‘rebels’.” That is whats going on brother.

And you do THINK a lot brother…” I don’t think they are disciples of a communist ideology, but rather renegades out for vengeance”…yes,they are and shall forever remain ‘renegades’ ‘coz they were IGNORED by u n me and shall not be so this time, and yes, it was vengeance ‘coz u and me did not live up to their dreams and this time, we shall.
I do understand it takes time to bring the scared cat out of the closet…take ur time brother, things will be fine when we all work together.

1) Mystichacker is not samudaya. I am not samudaya.

2) Learn to be accept criticism / disagreement in a debate without thinking they are a personal offense. Nowhere in our statement do we say, We are going to nod our heads in agreement even though we don’t agree with you.

3) We are quite tolerant of you. This whole website is filled with your comments, clearly in disagreement with “samudaya.” Tolerating you, or welcoming your opinion in difference to ours, does not mean agreeing with you no matter what you say. It means letting you present your views here freely, which you are able to.

Cheers to that, Ian!

Don’t you find it funny (rather sad) that bunch of western-educated, open-minded, free-thinkers are completely incapable of handling any argument that doesn’t sing along with them, and only pick on you for the color of your skin?

I admire that you’re undeterred by the constant abuse.

Nicely put, bahini. I hope both JBK and Mystichacker understand your wise words.

Comrade Ian, commenting from Oxford District.

Ian is not making any argument, he is simply pasting news and analysis from other sources.

I vent my frustration towards you Ian. You are a perfect example of a D**KHEAD…an A**EHOLE. There is NOTHING to disagree with YOU Ian!!!! You never questioned my reasoning!!! I know u cannot…’coz u havent anything in that dumb skull of urs that understands the basic picture of Nepali events and forces behind. You make assumptions that u believe in, try to counter some bluntly, and you have VESTED intersts, i dunno if u understand that.
I do not hesitate to call u DUMB now u f**ker!!! Nobody has ever asked u in this website to believe or not to believe …but rather u cud make an effort to understand!!! And there are many ways to make a scumbag understand what he claims to understand…people are already awaiting you Ian, you know where.

last warning before we ban you for being abusive — sweeper

constant abuse? what is the difference between “you foreigner” and saying “sarahana bahini i think you are really confused” 10 times? it’s the same thing, one sugar-coated, one not.

Ian
don’t undersatand what the above (#59) means

Reality Check,

Yes, I think it is both funny and sad that they behave in this way. Its seem education is not how much you pay for it but how you use it.

I have students in Nepal who seem to show a better level of discourse from their time in local village schools than is apparrent from these people.

and why would you think students in villages incapable of “better” discourse in the first place?

Your students? Geez, how Nepal needs to regulate its many departments so that we are not continually fed the same propaganda all over again — taking us back 236 yeas!

Simple -i don’t think that and did not say that.

IM SORRY SWEEPER!
Please, do not Ban me.
I will try to not break loose.
Before im done for today, look at them licking arses…fodder for them today.
Thanks guys…[ppl behind the scene] sorry

Abuse is undermining a minority view and making subjective judgements based NOT on one’s argument but on his/her race/background/ethnicity.

None of us (I don’t think) is a member of the PLA or the Maoist movement or even live in the country, therefore following the logic presented by many here, no one has the right to make any jugdements on this issue.

pradip,

I think #59 means that certain commentators are do not like criticism or people that disagree with them.

No shit! You are incapable of sayinng anything suctantive except post other’s articles and analysis to relay your point.

That is not discourse, it is referencing. Poor students in Nepal must hold you in high regard for that. Forget getting similar treatment here.

(now complain of insulting you and post ‘about samudaya’ to drive your points home)

Of couse, Comrade!

My apologies for being so clearly incompetent. I fear that i am only able to base my analysis on the evidence of others because Oxford is so far removed from the the villages of Jumla.

Please accept my apologies, I have no wish to challenge your views because I realise that you are always right and i am always wrong for thinking differently to you.

My humble apologies,

Comrade Ian, reporting from Oxford District

Where do other people here, who didn’t get their education and analytical ability from western institutions, get their views? Were you born with them? Did you get them sitting under a pepal tree? Do you not ‘reference’ other’s analysis to form your own opinion?

I don’t get the trashing of western ideals, especially by people educated, living and earning by western standards. Is that some odd form of self-deprecation?

Let me reiterate this for the damn nth time. This fellow is not making any original argument, hence cannot induce people to argue on his points — simply because those are not his. Your conclusion regarding me trashing ‘western ideals’ is your own construct that has no validity to the discussion neither deserves any rebuttal. Whereas forming opinion based on certain analysis remain valid, using other’s arguments to provide major thrust of argument is simply reporting and NOT engaging in dabates.

Further, abuse is a two-way street. Judgements based on preconceived notion of any commenter is of equal concern as rest.

For Maoism is the issue of Nepal and any number of Nepalis concerned with any amount of link to Nepal HAS A RIGHT to make judgements about the movement, unless of course they intend not to be conecerned with the future of Nepal as they are quite conspicuously fed in the foreign lands.

“For Maoism is the issue of Nepal and any number of Nepalis concerned with any amount of link to Nepal HAS A RIGHT to make judgements about the movement, unless of course if they intend not to be conecerned with the future of Nepal as they are quite conspicuously fed in the foreign lands.”

What happens if they are concerned about the future of Nepal but disagree with you?

What happens if their views have been fed by Nepali people from Nepali lands?

What then?

Comrade,

I would rather be wrong when you are right.

Disagree away, is Samudaya blocking you? In fact, it is the other way around — you and the likes seem to be continuously intimidated everytime Maoism is brought up in the discussion where there are attempts made to study the movement beyond its paranoid image.

Whoever here thinks they’re making an original argument needs to stop flattering themselves. We are all regurgitating the same arguments that have been discussed for generations. And rightly so, as those are the fundamental issues of this debate. It’s just that one point of the argument has more supporters here than the next.

Speak for yourself

After a period of self-reflection, I have to concede that i am indeed intimidated by Maoism from the ‘dreaming’ spires of Oxford. I must surely concede that i am an idiot.

Thank you for pointing this out, Comrade Hacker.

A foregone conclusion, a preconceived notion? Yet you want to engage in debates? A wrong way to put your point forward.

Comrade Hacker,

If this is the ‘wrong’ way, then what is the ‘right’ way?

So what’s the original argument here?

why is everyone consistently being called “Comrade”? it’s completely kindergarten.

Fear of the unknown my dear.

Actually, it’s a fear of the very well known.

If we don’t address the cancer that is maoism soon, the fear will turn into reality. Those who are romanticising about the ‘great’ maoist cause will soon be greeted with a violent jolt (literally).

Why would a group used to enforcing it’s ideals with ‘the barrel of a gun’ succumb to the democratic process, if it doesn’t get what it wants?

Re: post 55

Again, you look at effects that’s being produced, which is universally (for the most part) agreed — using unnecessary means to achieve goals as unacceptable. Now, the cause that gave rise to it is already in motion, meaning, people for better or worse have already accepted their oppressed status. Thus, no amount of enforcing military tactic or labeling them as terrorist is going to induce them to think and act otherwise, neither is pointing out brutalities where functioning government is itself unable bring those issues to the forefront, yet. As a matter of practical importance, the burden is on civic society to distinguish between those that are victimized versus those that stand to victimize their own members and public at large.

Nepali Maoist movement have not had enough of bureaucratic and armed support to get corrupted through central power similar to Tamil tigers and Hamas. It is a fairly new movement which, if anything, is concerned more in keeping up the morale of its members and continuing the momentum rather than taking advantage of its over-zealous members.

The objective is always to assimilate, but without giving them their fair due — recognizing their movement form ideological point and possibly allowing them to work towards a more socialist agenda, one cannot expect them to assimilate into larger population. Those remain pipe-dreams of observers who wish to see no amount of communist ideology play into the lives of people. At this instance in Nepal’s history, we have to be willing to accept the changing political dynamics as found in countries like Venezuela and Peru. They are all going to see some amount of communist ideology shape their socio-political and economic policies.

While an immediate communist republic would be another disaster (speculation nevertheless), ostricizing Maoists based on sheer paranoia and inane hyperbole is almost another historical instance — Nepali version of Macarthyian witch-hunt of the 50s, which have apparently blurred perception of some of the Nepalis groomed in American propaganda concerning the communists today. Astu!

RealityCheck,
Here is a flaw in your perception of the so-called romanticization of the Maoists: if it was the movement we were romanticizing, why would we be pushing for its end, for its integration into the mainstream, which is so less romantic? This has nothing to do with romanticization of an armed struggle, but everything to do with holding on to the real grievances, the very real underrepresented populace, very real people, despite the movement’s bloody face.

Agreed with most of your points, so cheers to that!

BUT (of course), I don’t think the maoist paranoia is unwarranted. Look at the maoist movement anywhere and throughout history. It has succeeded in destabilizing the oppressive status quo, however once it tastes blood and realizes its power, it is unwilling to reconcile. Then their goal becomes unconditional maoist state or chronic instability.

So it’s necessary to deconstruct the maoist mindset. It is the interest of any well functioning democracy to address the “real grievances, the very real underrepresented populace, very real people” that are it’s citizens. It is not just a maoist philosophy that defines equality and justice for all. But by ‘sympathizing’ with their movement, we empower their tactics which is the cause for concern.

there’s nobody left who thinks the maoist movement should continue. even the maoists are preparing for an integration into the mainstream, and here you are looking at the celebration of a ceasefire. besides, while fearing the maoists let’s not forget that RNA is a group whose unpredictable (or unfortunately predictable in the horrendous sense) behavior is equally influential in the stability of nepal. they too have tasted blood and power. the RNA paranoia is not unwarranted either. that completes the context.

comrade mystichacker
thanks for #88. it will help revive mcarithism

“Why would a group used to enforcing it’s ideals with ‘the barrel of a gun’ succumb to the democratic process, if it doesn’t get what it wants?”

Because my friend the Reality is neither they nor the state can get anything either wants through the gun. That my friend is reality check for you.

As for Ian, I feel he wasn’t hugged when he was a kid. So much anger. Yes you are wrong Ian in my mind and in others suck it up. Just like we are wrong in yours. By the way if you hate this place so much why you still here.

I am so tired of Western educated rich kid can’t think argument. Yes I was privileged as most of us here. I got a good education and I had a good life. What’s that to do with my thinking. Ian you and RealityCheck(I am assuming here) are both are just as far from Nepal as Sarhana, MHacker or I am so whats your argument. Just because you hate the Maoist you are right. You are just as flawed as samudaya is then and even worse you are a hypocrites.

I am no comrade nor is Mhaker nor Sarhana. Yet you want to label them based upon, better yet just so that you feel better, as comrades. That would be me labeling you a mandale Mr. Ian. Get a life, walk around Oxford a little, you need some oxygen.

Hey, leave me outta’ this!

I never claimed to be ‘right’ nor accused anyone of being ‘wrong’.

one of the jobs left to do is (and will be) accounting for the thousands killed/disappeared/tortured, etc. The Maoists and the RNA (particularly their leadership) are both responsible.
possibly, once the Maoists move into the mainstream our leaders (whoever comes to power ultimately, be it Maoist or democratic or monarchist) will prefer to conveniently forget the terror waged on the Nepali people. our responsibility is to not let this happen.
about the photographs: i don’t think it is problematic to portray maoists as human beings, as Nepalis just like us. the same goes for RNA soldiers. i don’t think that forgives their violence.

rajani
who has started the terror?

Comrade Anon,

“As for Ian, I feel he wasn’t hugged when he was a kid. So much anger. Yes you are wrong Ian in my mind and in others suck it up.”

CLASSIC! I actually laughed out loud when you wrote this. Its so funny.

Thank you!

Re: 90

If the status quo is reluctant in engaging with them at level different than what we have been seeing — labeling them terrorists and subsequently causing air raids, as any entity fighting to preserve themselves will be forced to resist which, if you are to recognize current political development as a ‘break-through’ of some sort will just look like another attempt to dupe the Maoists. And no one but Nepali politicians and intelligentia will be responsible for this hypothetical detour.

The only way to deconstruct Maoism is if you replace it with something similar — greater Marxism, socialism what have you which, while addressing the need of the ‘disenfranchised’ within a suitable democratic framework, will restrict them form taking alternative means that are outside of legitimate political realm.

I might seem a bit insensitive here but when people throw these things at me it makes me laugh because it shows that they respect my views enough to be be offend by what i am saying.

I am only offering my views and opinions. If you don’t like them it doesn’t make you wrong, does it?

The Maoists started it, no the RNA started it!
This is precisely the argument that I don’t want to get into. It is obvious that people are not going to agree, which is fine too. There is always space for discourse. My point is exactly that in the endless debates, the dead and the grief of it gets lost. If you think that dealing with this requires one party to first be wholly blamed, then i think you are wrong. everybody is going to argue from their point of view, formed by their particular experiences. Whether your family member was killed by the RNA or the Maoists, the thing is he is dead.

“Whether your family member was killed by the RNA or the Maoists, the thing is he is dead.”

I wish more people like Rajani could share such a pragmatic view to the political situation in Nepal.

comrade mystichacker
I have never seen the current political development as a breakthrough

obviously you will retrospectively ‘realize’ it as such once it is too late — as bombs and grenades start exploding in Kathmandu.

it is precisely because most nepalis share this pragmatic view that we are willing to accept maoists as mainstream politicians, and the rna as our natioal army. if that wasn’t the case, we’d be asking maoists to be hung and the rna to be exiled.

मेरा दाज�भाई दीदीबहीनी ह�न� यीनीहर� ।।
कृपया आतनà¥?कबादी नभनà¥?नà¥? à¤¹à¥‹à¤²à¤¾à¥¤à¥¤

ok, bb, but wounds don’t heald that fast

“If we don’t address the cancer that is maoism soon, the fear will turn into reality. ”

LOL Reality:
earlier you said all these pints have already been made. True. And the point you have made has also already been pointed out 100000 times. Only if the leaders listened that time!

“Maoism is if you replace it with something similar — greater Marxism, socialism what have you which, while addressing the need of the ‘disenfranchised’ within a suitable democratic framework,”

what are you talking about? what is Marxism-lenisim-moisim and pracanda path then? am i not just understanding what you are trying to say or r u just blabbering?

He is just blabbering as is usual.

yes, indeed, it will

How right you are Comrade Hacker!

“The only way to deconstruct Maoism is if you replace it with something similar — greater Marxism, socialism what have you which, while addressing the need of the ‘disenfranchised’ within a suitable democratic framework, will restrict them form taking alternative means that are outside of legitimate political realm.”

I am slowly starting to understand your dark sense of humour, Mystic. Your views are a well concealed form of irony, aren’t they? I concede to you that your statements are comical genius and carefully constructed to bemuse us all.

It would be nice if we could lock all the human rights abusers from the Maoists and RNA in a dark room and let them fight it out for justice.

Perhaps we can do the same with the Psuedo intellects, dogmatists, sophistic idealogues and those who purport absolutes where there are none.

Sometimes it is more important to triumph what we do not know than create a fallacy summoned from the pages of fiction and fantasy. I would like to proclaim you alone for your entertainment value because your words are coated in sugar but we both know that sugar rots your teeth. Let us hope you do not need root canal, bhai.

I would suggest that if you would your views to be credible and not just your words; you ought to read the pages of history and politics, visit a few villages in Nepal and speak to Nepali people who do not have the latest iPod. I have nothing against you personally or Western educated Nepali people but you specifically show a profane disregard for reality and the socio economic conditions of the Nepali people living outside the Kathmandu Valley. You lament the oppression of the monarchy with one tongue and yet lick the butt cheeks of another form of oppression in rural society.

You describe one side as regressive and the other as revolutionary using nothing more than an emotive, irrational and moral judgement that is based on the pages of 19th century thought. I think that you allow your views to remain there.

You have repeatedly stated that you do not think the people should negotiate with the King but you think is Nepal’s best interests to negotiate with the Maoists. You would negotiate with one oppressor and flagrant of human rights abuses yet alienate another on the pretext that one is more righteous than the other?

I have nothing against you personally or your views but my concern would be that people would read your clever poetry and believe what you are saying even though events are thousands of miles away from you.

Piggybacking Ian, how appropriate, now suck ya thumb!

Re: 107

I recommend you follow the discusion rather than get fixated by nouns like Marxism, Socialism etc.

The major point of argument has been of using certain tactic to achieve the goal — mostly Maoists are readily accused of working from outside of political framework to achieve their goal. When and if they decide to work under a democratic framework they should be legitamately recognized as any other ‘mandale’ parties to work towards their goal — whether Marxism, socialism etc.

Sarahana,

Re Post 104;

It is also because you don’t actually have a choice in the matter. In fact, i was go so far to say that it is your only choice.

ian thinks he cleverly disguises his hatred for mystic, but really it’s so evident. sarahana bahini, i think you are really confused x 10 = ianic diplomacy.

if we have no choice, ian, then why are you accusing of us being willing to negotiate with the maoists? which is the case, make up your mind: that we have a choice, or that we don’t.

How right of you Comrade Hacker!

“Maoists are readily accused of working from outside of political framework to achieve their goal.”

They are accused and often found guilty of working outside the political framework through coerciion and violence. I would like to see you justify this violence in the name of ‘working outside the political framework.’

“When and if they decide to work under a democratic framework they should be legitamately recognized as any other ‘mandale’ parties to work towards their goal — whether Marxism, socialism etc.”

‘When and if’ Indeed.

Sometimes not even the best education money can buy in this world is beyond helping some people. I lament Sarahana’s continued misinterpretation of my words!!!

At no point have i ‘accused’ you of being willing to negotiate with the Maoists. DUH!

Secondly, i do not hate Comrade Hacker. I consider him my nights entertainment.

Sometimes even the best education money can buy in this world is beyond helping some people. I lament Sarahana’s continued misinterpretation of my words!!!

At no point have i ‘accused’ you of being willing to negotiate with the Maoists. DUH!

Secondly, i do not hate Comrade Hacker. I consider him my nights entertainment and he is worth every minute of bile that he types.

I have repeatedly mentioned king to be an autocrat and his institution archaic, and if need be such should also be removed forcefully, if that means paving way for revolutionaries and assimilating them into greater Nepali population and representation, you have read me correctly.

Now rest of you comments are all psycho-babble that deserve no legit response from me. I have read it and laughed it away. I would rather argue with others on specific issues than answer your hopscotch attitude in samudaya.

But you did respond any way. :)

Are you dyslexic?

i lament your misinterpretation of our words: what has occured is indeed a negotiation with the king (reinstate the parliament and we’ll end the protests); what was being said was not to compromise on certain issues (namely the reinstatement and the calling of constituent assembly), which is far from saying don’t negotiate at all when negotiation was exactly what was in place. likewise, there will be similar negotiation with the maoists: join the mainstream, but as a peaceful party. how do you see one as, in your beautiful words, butt-cheek-licking, and the other not? DUH! indeed.

sarahana
don’t like the use of your word ‘negotiate’ with the maoists. why negotiate with the maoists. they are criminals. again, would the us ‘negotiate’ with osama bin laden or for that matter would india ‘negotiate’ with the taliban?

The Bushite experiment has far-flung effects. Where can I cahnge my name? City hall is it?

pradip, the word “negotiate” comes from your friend’s ian’s comment (#110). http://www.dictonary.com — pick whichever world you like.

Sarahana,

I don’t really have a response for you. You have left me completely speachless and baffled at your lack of logic. Lets just leave it there and agree to disagree because i feel like i am banging my head against a bloody big wall when i am talking to you.

now now, are you being disrespectful and insulting, ian?

The same can be said to Mystichacker.

I am just completely speachless at his lack of intelligent thought and ability to talk like his mouth is his anus.

He is just amazing in his ability to talk crap on a subject that he seems to know very little about.

I am just glad that you and Sarahana have no real influence in Nepal otherwise i would be truly concerned for its future when there are myopic sophists like two around.

I have no intention to debate with you two any further because its like watching my toe nails grow inwards -both dull and painful to watch.

You can debate with people that agree with you.

On that note, I am going to pack my bags for Nepal. Goodnight.

after all the holier-than-thou, height-of-intellecualism, western-education, learning-to-disagree, resorting-to-insult talk from ian, he says mystic talks like his mouth is in his anus, claims we lack logic for having disagreed wtih him, stamps his feet and stomps off the room. mama!

STOMP. I appear to have over estimated both of you.

STOMP. I can see from your comments over the last week or so that you and Mystichacker are unable to counter my points so our debates always end up like this -just insults.

STOMP. You have a nice website and there are some really good thinkers here, Boxcutters Friend, Reality Check, Rajani, Bhudai, BB, Pradip and amongst others and i think they would spend more time debating if it were not for your behaviour (and Mystichacker)

STOMP. You do not allow a counter view and when one appears you attempt to discredit it and when you are able to use debate (often) you use insults.

When you learn to debate, learn the value of tolerance, democracy and reason then maybe I will come back and debate with you and Mystichacker but until that time I will continue to just respond to others.

i was making an argument about negotiation before you said that i lacked logic and that talking to me was like banging your head against the wall. likewise, you were the one who summed mystic’s arguments as also lacking logic and having come out of his ass. so you tell me, who is ending this debate in insults, and who is unable to accept disagreements as anything other than lacking logic.

and how we not allow counter views when you continue do so freely? does allowing mean agreeing with you? nobody is stopping you from making your case. you have as much access to the comments box as anyone else.

STOMP You don’t know what you are talking about. STOMP. Go to sleep STOMP. Tolerate my ass, learn to accept others STOMP. You have NEVER made a point STOMP, most of your posts in samudaya complains how such and such is insulting you STOMP. Grow up STOMP, quick STOMP

personal grievance index have jumped here at samudaya. molar flow of intellectual discource is being diluted with pulse increase in volumetric flow of inerts. conversion of the reactants has diminished resulting in sharp increase in the concentrations of reactants and undesired products in the effluent stream. i suggest increasing the residence time and decreasing the space-time for the molar flow of the reactants.

What ever the hell that means here

If the e + i q index also jump with a sudden lurch to rear in the FOREX exchange we might get somewhere but i doubt it is going to happen in these parts. ‘en orgh exie’ after but not before listening.

this is pretty much off the current topic, but i was suggested to post this here if i wanted some sort of reponse from people: — -
do absentee ballots exist for nepalese elections?

i havent really looked into this too deeply,it only came to mind yesterday afternoon actually and i asked a friend online last night, who in turn asked a couple of people, he was online with and everyone seemed to think ‘no! they don’t’ or atleast no one seems to know for sure.

anyway, what with the present situation in nepal and the ‘future’ elections, i feel it is important and one’s birth right to be able to vote, as a nepali, no matter where you might be. i see there are a bunch of nepalis with very strong opinions on ‘samudaya’, it would be a shame for all of you not to be able to exercise this right just because you’re not in nepal.

i understand that this is a very complex process and i’d be very surprised if the nepalese government has even thought of it. let alone initiated a process to actually make this possible. also if they even take us seriously once we manage to get passed through the pale dai’s and survive all the waiting in govt. offices, to eventually propose this to the concerned authority. i was wondering if you (or anyone you know) had any idea as to how we could go about making this possible. or at least iniate some sort of process to get the ball rolling for future elections/generations of nepalis worldwide.

maybe you (or people you know) know more about this.

aradhana:
man thats a logistical nightmare! I don’t its a priority… besides many people might object to it… we don’t live in Nepal and you want the government to spend time/money/effort etc. to allow us to vote… ohhh that’s going to be tough to convince people.

aradhana
what voting are you talking about? we are heading towards a “dictatorship of the proletariat”

Nayantara,

Picture speaks thousands words. Pls keep up the great job. Very informative.

Lets not get too excited. There hasn’t been an election for 8 years and i think you might have to wait another 8 years before you get a chance to vote due to the ‘security’ situation.

Bhudai Pundit:

yes i know this definately seems impossible, but even the word (impossible) breaks up to say, I’M POSSIBLE!:) and as i mentioned (in my post), i am SURE the govt. has not thought of it.
why do u think people might object?
do u mean nepalis abroad would object or the govt.?
just because you live abroad, does that mean the nepali govt. should stop spending money/effort/time for you (a nepali) to exercise your civil right?
if it (absentee ballots) were possible, would u vote?

abhaya:

i meant voting in general, for ‘future’ elections.

…:

i am only getting excited at the prospect of maybe making this (absentee ballots) possible, at one point in the future. who knows when the next election will take place? who knows when or if the nepali govt and nepalis abroad will make absentee ballots possible for a fair election? but this is time for productive changes and i see this as one. some things just might change, with that tiny bit of ‘hope’ that has been instilled in all of us, to preserve our sanity through rough times. :)

First I would like to congratulate the photographer for the great work. Whatever ideological dissent we bloggers may have, but we should definitely appreciate these kinds of works.
The big discussion about the ideology which is infact getting worser in samudaya is only due to the fact that nobody is trying to introspect or retrospect. A sanskrit word Aham-Bramhasicame in my mind.
Yes I do agree with Blogmate-Ian-that all people are being blighted by the blindness. Probably it holds true in your case too, along with every single blogger(The co-ordinator are the chips of the same block too. As they didn’t took out the post pointed towards Ian for being many things. If it wouldn’t have been the case, they would have deleted it, as they did in past).
After reading the comments posted over i reckon that everybody trying to pulverize their counterparts.
But the ultimate verity is that in the present context or political pandemonium that we could not eradicate any of the three political powers of Nepal. So the best situation is probably the inter-ideological and intra ideological harmony required in order to get a greater political coherence.

Scapegoating the king for their political mudslinging, berating usa for their abusive behavior and extortion, ranting RNA for following orders such as Kilosera (edicted by same people who are ranting them) all would be and must be regarded as arrogance and to a certain degree fanaticism.

Other than scrutinizing the others move, we should better rethink our values and make them compatible for better cause.

Talking about the inter-party and intra political choerence, let me be clear about that before a question being raise.
I would agree with SPA that there should be true democracy (a functioning one). I would agree with Maoist that there shouldnot be segregration and stratification among the people. I agree with the king that there shouldn’t be any political quagmire, which we have seen and been through for last 12-13 years.

Can we change the past? Ofcourse not( unless Einstein theory of realtivity do some magic). But we can move towards the future with experience we procure.

Proababy C. Assembly may be(and hopefully will be) the paltform for mending fences and diffrences.

Talking about the intra-ideological harmony. We can definitely discern now that the egoistic policy and politics can lead to a turmoil. The 36s kand and mid-election of GPK ( from which it all started) epiotmize the disunity of so-called same political ideology. Though people may argue that the stratification is being pratice from eons. I absolutely with you guys. But we in the past have had got platforms to change it. But everybody was busy in their own mundane stalemate. (i.e why we are dissenting in samudaya)

Phenomenalism WITHOUT naive realism in the name of the E. Verity. It stinks cow-dung.

Sarahana:
Going through comments why so much hatred for RNA??
They are just doing the depicted orders of so called great politicians both in house of representative period and post house of representative period.

I may reckon there may be flaws in the ground tactics of the RNA but as a whole RNA motives and rationale was to defeat or catch the labeled terrorist( labeled by the same corrupt so-called savior ,probably of thier own arse, whom you are hailing for last couple of week).

I agree that RNA is corrupted like any other institution of Nepal but they are not corrupted as others are: home ministry or finance ministry (from top to bottom) or even congress party itself (atleast the top level and their cronies).

SD: Could you,a out-and-out) intelectual) elaborate your comment???

RNA hated as an institution not as a person

Your perception of Nepali politics smells HOLY sans common sense.
Fiction=/=Verity.

”Can we change the past? Ofcourse not( unless Einstein theory of realtivity[typo] do some magic). But we can move towards the future with experience we procure.”

The above sentence is complete non-sense. Clarity, shines! not the smeared gold.

Thats out-and-out pseudo intellect for u, there could be nothing more to it.

Im done Epistemological Verity.

time makes more converts than reason - thomas paine said about three hundred years ago, and is still very much true. i am optimistic, very optimistic, that ‘naya nepal sambhav chha’ and we are the one to make that possible. for that discussion is important. but one thing i didn’t quite see in this discussion is the end we are trying to achieve. is this just for the sake of discussion? time pass may be?

people, holding diametrically opposite views with no common agenda to achieve by the way of discourse, will never come to a conclusion. they are always afraid to lose.

how many actually, objectively, here think that if it had not been for the maoists’ “people’s war”, agenda of constituent assembly, new constitution, republic, oppression of dalits, all inclusive democracy, etc. would have been topics for public discussion? i had for a long time during last ten years thought republic was possible in nepal by peaceful means. i had thought that inclusive democracy, local participation in decision making, resource allocation, was possible by peaceful means. now, sadly, i am willing to change that long-held view.

how many actually think, if it had not been the scare of guns and army maoists’ have, king would have succumbed to the demand and the roadmap of seven party alliance? i donot personally.

i see cliches all over the internet, that is all i see because i cannot see anything else, that what ten years of maoists’ war couldn’t achieve nineteen days of people’s movement did. isn’t is that “when a stone breaks on hundredth blow, it didn’t actually break due that last blow only, but due to the ninety-nine that went before that?”

Actually, it’s not how many stones you throw; we had been throwing peebles for the past how many years and finally decided to pick up a boulder — that is what broke the proverbial glass.

The king would have fought the maoist for longer, it was the quantive force of the people that he retired to.

So, giving the maoist the bulk of the credit is, in my view, undeserving; they were just throwing peebles, they would’ve never amounted to much by themselves. They could’ve gone another 20 years as guerilla rebels, as many exists in other parts of the world, putting up small skirmishes here and there. They help stir the pot, that’s it.

as i said in #148, we first need to identify what are we discussing here.

- regard maoists as a part of the problem or regard maoists are a part of the solution,

- discount the contributions of maoists in bringing out the inequalities prevalent in our society or give it a due recognition

- accept that sometime it is necessary to take up arms to make somebody listen or be dogmatic with the convenient chanting of pacifism

- accept that public discourse of atrocities committed by maoists and RNA will help prevent further atrocities (room doesnot become clean by hiding the filth, instead by keeping it into the open and attempting to throw it away) or just focus on the atrocities committed by maoists and always brand them as terrorists (by the way, there had been many unaccounted killings of political activists during panchayat era as well as during the earlier times of this ‘people’s war’ of the maoists.)

- be confident that we, the public, can bring maoists to the peaceful politics and keep them there or be scared that they will always be bloodthirsty and shouldn’t be allowed to compete in a healthy political environment (actually, there will always be corrupt people and there will always be people who will want to do good. we simply need a rule of law that doesnot hamper who is honest and want to do good.)

- find the source of problem or shy away

so, there are so many facets and dimensions to the problem we are currently facing. maoists are simply a small part.

i personally think many of the maoists leadership are genuinely interested in solving the longstanding inequal distribution of power and resources extant in nepal, basically due to its feudal structure. feudal doesnot of course just mean the king. look at the political leadership itself, they cannot take healthy criticism from their own cadres. cadres are supposed to follow whatever their party ‘leaders’ tell them to. parents in a family doesn’t want to discuss matter with children, they were supposed to direct and children were supposed to obey.

etc. etc…

I don’t support Maoists completely, but one thing I found Maoist army are much superior to the RNA - equality within their ranks. A lower ranked Maoist soldier won’t have to work as a servant in higher levels officer’s house or be abused by derogatory language as in the Nepalese army.

sarahana(#1)
the photo with the subtitle “the musicians have begun…”) reminds me of the revolutionary operas initiated by madame mao during the cutural revolution in the 1960s, it bears a striking similarity, to glorify and deify her husband who was slowly losing his grip in the party. unfortunately, it failed. she was tried, jailed, given a life term and eventually died of ‘suicide’

…Kamal Thapa Thief

pradip,
i’m not sure why you are addressing your comment specifically to me. these photos were taken by nayantara (unless you were responding to a comment of mine?)

I am under the impression that you are the coordinator of this show

that bastard junghe kamal thapa needs to be brought to justice. kaha gayo tyo daka?

People, can we please stop fussing about what the Maoists and the RNA did or did not? I have been following this discussion for sometime now, and Mr. Ian and Mr. Mystichacker seems to end up in some kind of contemptous stalemate every time, with neither gentlemen willing to give an inch.

Is anybody out here condoning what either party did in terms of inflicting violence? Ian, your point is well taken. Yes, the Maosists have, at times, used brutal means to advance their cause, and now that Nepal is at a cross-road, people should not gloss over and glorify them as the ultimate heroes. I’m emphatically denouncing their coercion against those who were helpless. But can you condemn them in totality? Frustration born out of years and years of oppression is bound to erupt, hoina? RNA justified their violence as a means to suppress the “insurgency.” But what about their acts of brutality (like you said - rape, torture, disappearance, et al) when Maoists was not even a part of Nepali vocabulary? Granted that the Royals themselves probably did not prompt the RNA soldiers to carry out their atrocities, but they are more culpable than all our corrupt politicians or anybody else for Nepal’s derelict state. As a matter of fact, they and their sycophantic cronies were busy carrying out their own reprisals.

In a utopian world, people entrusted with protection would not inflict harm upon those they are supposed to protect. And then again, there would be no cause for a revolution. But who said Nepal is a Shangri-La? I did not. Shit happens, and this blame game would acieve nothing but some more shit. (Forgive me, I’m being facetious).

Anyways, what I want to know is what next? All I can see happening is the majority of so called affluent Kathmandubasi settling in their old rut of bhojbhatero and fancy gahanas once the “unprecedented revolution” becomes old news. This time around, I’m certain the so called sojho gaunles would not go back to their dhendo-gundro and wait for the new crops of politicians to solve their problems. It is naive to assume that democracy and the Maoist representation in the mainstream would bring effective change any time soon. Nepal definitely needs serious influx of cash to even begin to solve its socio-economic problems, let alone find funds to build infrastructures necessary to compete in the global market. For a counrty without any major viable resources - may be except for hydro-power - what do we do? Keep depending upon foreign aids and surmounting WB debt? Tourism is another major revenue generator, but it is still going to take a few more years of (hopeful) political stability to lure the tourists back. After this furor, would people be patient enough to give it a chance? I’m not an economist … so I don’t have a fancy solution.

Democracy can sustain itself only if there is a corresponding economic progress. Otherwise, back to same old, same old. I don’t want to sound like a cynical nay-sayer … it is just that when I think about the challenges that we face, I get more and more confounded.

As for the pictures, it is ultimately sad to read about jr. Samir’s desire to hold a gun, and I hope it isn’t a precursor to Nepal’s future. But hey, I also saw his fascination with the camera. So, I’m crossing my fingers, and then again, doing my part one little bit at a time.

BTW, Nayantara - great job! peace

Chenrezig; Totally agree with you and I would add that the strength of a democracy rests upon the socio-economic conditions that allow it to take root. Furthermore, where those socio-economic factors are absent you are left with a lopsided democratic process where those 'with' (education, ethnic bias, economic elites, rising middle class) are those with power, who naturally participate for themselves and not the betterment of Nepal.

The remaining groups that are 'without' (rural, uneducated/poorly educated, living on less than $1 a day (nearly 50% of the population in Nepal) tend to be alienated from the democratic process and the associated benefits thus giving rise to frustration, dissent and possible violence.

In Nepal, you can see that the Maoists are led by a group of men who come from the former category to exploit the latter group. There is an element of articulating their needs but the ideological inconsistency of Prachandapath and the power politics of the Maoists suggest that they pay only lip service to social justice. In the end, it tends to comes down to cadres at the local level to implement social justice which can be manifestly brutal in Ramachapp or altruistic in Shindupalchowk.

I believe a strong democracy must balance the interests between the two groups since without addressing the larger populations needs it will only lead to further conflict.

I am highly optimistic of Nepal's potential to achieve economic progress that is not out of keeping with Asia but it requires continued and sustained effort.

My concern is not what can be done but what is being done and the motivations behind the actions of those with power.

I am still banned but as you can see their efforts have not come to much.

Ian

I will give you some official poverty incidence figures of Nepal. In 2003-04, 31 percent of population was poor in Nepal (CBS 2005). In terms of 2003-2004 prices the following was the poverty line derived per person per year in Rs:
All Nepal 7,695.7
Kathmandu 11,056.8
Rural western hill 8,901.5
Rural eastern hill 8,069.6
Rural western terai 7,418.4
Rural eastern terai 6,078.8

Of course, there has been a lot of debates, discussions about the definition of the poverty line. The above official Nepli figure is based on essential food intake and comprises some non-food needs.

Yes, I agree with you that the remaining groups of the ‘withouts’ and have nots are DEFINITELY the subject of our prime concern. I feel that it is the lack of capital and not lack of land that is the problem with them. Somebody earlier remarked that 80% of the 80% rural people do not have land. This is not true, but as I do not have the official figure with me now, I am unable to forward it.

Now, to access to capital, however small it my be, to buy a cow, bufalo, or set up a small sustainig business, I feel that the rural (urban is posible too) micro finance sytem could work. Micro finance is a system of giving loan, financial advice, to the poor and marginalized, who are unable to offer conventional banking collateral.

Ian
Yes, I have got the housing figures with me now.
Percentage of household by ownership of house occupied for urban rural Nepal (2001):

Type Nepal Urban Rural
of
ownership

Owned 88.3 60.9 93.4

Source: CBS 2003,Population Monograph of Nepal, Vol. I,Table 5.4:180

Referring to #158
‘In Nepal, you can see that the Maoists are led by a group of men who come from the former category to exploit the latter group..’

ian, how did u come to conclude that maoist leaders are from the ‘former’ catagory and are there to exploit the “latter group”? do u know the backgrounds of these leaders and please share if u do..
as far as i know prachanda himself grew up admist poverty in a village in chitwan after his family migrated from their pahad-home..
he was pretty much above average student who graduated from a agriculture college in chitwan..didnt find a job corresponding to his education…taught in school..

i was just curious how u came to that conclusion..

Something we need to remember is that communism itself and therefore the extension “Maoist” is a product of political ideology. Judging the followers of an ideology based on what you see or hear through the mass media which often time is inaccurate is wrong. Among others, the fundamental of the Maoists’ revolultion lies on the reality in the country sides in Nepal that depicts poverty, discrimination and inequality. The ideology would get support whereever pverty exists. Those participating in this discussion belong to middle class, or lower middle class with a tendency to reach to uthe pper middle class people. Therefore, this group essentially can not see what the poorest among the poor people think about. Maoists in the areas they have been adminstering evidently proved that their governance is based on equality, non-discriminatory and for the poors. Therefore, despite all arguments from within the country and outside, they have managed to win the heart and mind of majority of people in nepal over the past two decades. Let us be positive and realistic!

Sorry to butt in (I mean barge in), but I wonder what the censoring policy of samudaya.org is?

It swept Ian’s bit on “mouth is in his anus”, but retained Sarhana’s reference to the same.

Censorship in a site that was banned by the RNA?

That’s bad.

Come on, practise what you preach. You might not like the words, or the tone, or the argument, but allow it, at least in your comment box.

Redefine your own notion of “freedom of expression” so it becomes real and lasting.

recorder, “mouth in his anus” was scratched because it was directed at Mystichacker, not because the phrase itself is vulgar. there is no policy on this site on ceonsoring profanity even though excessive usage of it is expected to make a commenter look like a fool.

the censoring policy in terms of attacking another user can be found here. i believe you have misunderstood the notion of freedom of speech if you think that whatever level of moderation in a discussion here is what bars it. all discussions need moderation. users are expected to abide by the policy and behave responsibly. if you write a letter to a magazine and they don’t publish it, or if they publish only some parts of it, it’s not because they’re against freedom of speech, it’s because all media of publishing have considerations that go beyond freedom of speech, a discussion getting out of hand and “deteriorating to shit” being one such consideration on a site like this.

and since there is an abundance of comments posted here that are obviously not the kind i, or many others here, would agree with, it should only be equally abundantly clear that we do allow comments we don’t like.

but we would appreciate it if all discussions didn’t turn into a discussion on samudaya’s censoring policy. for this reason, please use the message board for this topic in the future.

Thank you Sarhana for the immediate clarification.

Unfortunately I am not able to understand the subtle difference between sweeping out something for reason a as against reason b, wherein the former is less edifying than the latter as deemed by a bunch of human beings.

Regarding sending letters to editors, that is precisely the beauty of the web, isn’t it. Samudaya was able to do so much precisely because it was not uploaded from Nepal and because other than issuing some medieval diktat to ISP providers to block the site, nothing else could be done. The blocking was irritating, annoying, to samudaya and to many upholders of the freedom of expression.

So why not extend this beauty of the web to everyone who wants to comment.

You are already dictating what content you carry. Keep that prerogative. Give space to the rest: responses, reactions, comments, abuses, praise, poetry, love, hate, anger, Spanish, Hebrew…

Moderating a space is subjective. What you think needs sweeping might not be offensive to others. Something that is written in very nice language might be offensive to some.

If not offence, then it could be the difference in interpretation of what “going out of hand” is.

For example in this series of comments, there is, selecting purely on arbitrary and random principles, comment no. 26 (no offence to the commentator friend)
26 | thagu :

That Maoists have big D**KS, RNA-5inchers and we wont care if YOU had non.

This might sound to some purists as not quite within the bounds of discussion. But this is untouched. Others are swept. Some commentators are warned that they might be banned for 24 hours.

“Banned”?

Of course it is your blog, and you have your policy, but then it is others’ right to point out where they might be contradictions, and it is then again your right to insist that you are doing all right.

So be it.

So let others be too.

Think about it.

we run this site in addition to full time jobs. we don’t have time to chase after a commenter who spams (i.e. posts the same comment over and over and over again), deleting after him every time he does it. the only reasonable way to keep this under control is to ban the user for 24 hours so that we don’t have to spend our lives in front of the computer in order to keep this site running. note that the ban is imposed only on those who require “excessive moderation” as stated clearly. besides, if the user has been warned, why not stop spamming? why not just abide by the very little policy we have, as a way of contributing to making this site run more smoothly?

as for print vs. web: my very point is that each medium has its own constraints. on the web, because there is no space limitation, and because anonymity is allowed more easily, discussions tend to need some level of moderation (anonymity allows user to say things more irresponsibly at others) in order to keep it from getting out of hand. you may have your own ideas of how to best run this site, but we intend to keep the quality of discussions at a certain level, so we stick to the moderation. as maintainers of this site, it is our resonsibility to ensure that the users get the most out of what it has to offer, which includes removing comments that may make the discussion overwhelmingly confusing or agressive, or keeping up a certain level of readibility, which can even boil to technical issues like not using all caps, or not bolding all your comments, etc. we don’t promise a perfect job simply because we are not capable of it. we don’t have the time, as simple as that. the reason we scratch as many comments as we do (and not all) is precisely because we don’t always have the time to go through all the comments carefully and pick them out like a machine built for the job.

and yes, as much as the job of a judge is to interpret the constitution, which boils down to interpretation in the end, personal judgement is used in moderation. we have neither denied it, nor is it humanely possible to exclude such personal judgement altogether. however, for some comments that you think should be removed or scratched, simply email info@samudaya.org to point out something we might have overlooked. again, please continue this discussion on the message board or write to info@samudaya.org if you’d rather not. but let’s leave this page to the photos, the maoists, and the ceasefire! i would’ve really apprecitaed it if you had emailed us these concerns instead of posting them here.

Wonderful photos, Maoists are a political party in Nepal, and I, like others, welcome the ceasefire and pray for a peace that is based on justice.

For the rest, see elsewhere.

Oh puhleezz, if butting-in is the name of the game here then allow me to do so ever more rudely.

If you have been following the discussion at all which, from what you point to be a failure of samudaya’s flaming policy clearly point towards the lack of general understanding about the reason and need for banning commenters, rather than getting unnecessarily alarmed by its usage and drawing a senseless hyperbole and touting the drum — ‘freedom of expression’ on absolute ground. But, alas, you fail to understand any freedom that comes at the cost of taking it away of others’. Similarly, letting concentrated and unnecessarily vitriolic comments stand for the sake of ‘upholding the freedom of expression’ is taking it away from others who sincerely wish to express their views about real events not mushed in symbolic act of sadistic sexual expressions.

Thus, to make a long story short, samudaya stands by its flaming and banning policy and feels no justification or explanation necessary for enforcing its rule.

if i may also butt into this conversation…

i've been reading Mystichackers posts for a while and he has a serious attitude problem with accepting other peoples views but he doesnt challenge them with debate but arrogantly charges them down with little reference to their points.

to me, this guy has little intellectual credibility and any comments he makes just sound pompous verbal diarrohea.

personally i didn't find Ian's comment 'anus in mouth' particularly offensive but if it is worth removing then so are many of mystichackers posts that just offend for offendings sake…

…but i never see this, why?

i don't tend post on samudaya but i like to read thought provoking issues and i dont see that on this website at the moment…

for the record, i have personally removed many of mystic’s flaming comments with my own hands. you don’t see many of them because they were removed for spamming (that is, they came in a series, which we remove rather than scratch…and if you look around, you will find comments from him that are scratched).

secondly, there is a difference between having a bit of an attitude, and telling someone their mouth is in his anus, which is the difference between “oh puhleez” and “your mouth is in your anus.” you are not required here to say Sir, Madam, Dear, or be excessively polite and friendly. you are only required that you don’t verbally abuse other users, which is not to say you can’t ridicule their arguments, or be hard on what they have to say.

the discussion on our policies has offically moved here and i will be personally requesting the sweeper to please move all comments related to our policies to that board. thank you! register and fill up your profile while you are it, show how interesting or uninteresting you are.

RE: 170

While the butting-in continues, let me butt right into your ‘verbal constipation’ and attempt to reshape your comatosed view. By all account, my posts have been removed without impunity like any others. If you find yourself absolutely incapable of putting up a view and just ‘look to read thought-provoking issues’ then, isn’t this diversion an uncalled by-product of blog commenting where you yourself now engage in pointing fingers, because you find me ‘pompous’? How sly and hypocritical of you that, you have your say at my expense and then quite conveniently resort to confessing that you do not ‘intend to post on samudaya and only read about thought-proviking issues’. Participate to validate your views istead of getting hung up on people like myself.

Thankfully I am around to really provoke the hell out of people like you — pretending to stay out of things while leaving no opportunity to slam people who challange your rather partial judgement as a ‘visitor’.

“Nepal definitely needs serious influx of cash to even begin to solve its socio-economic problems, let alone find funds to build infrastructures necessary to compete in the global market. For a counrty without any major viable resources - may be except for hydro-power - what do we do?”

Haha great post Chenrezig. I had missed you out in this horendous fight.

I also, like you do not see how Nepal will be a better place anytime soon. The political stability is the main priority now, but as you said after, what’s next? Youngesters still are wanting go aboard and settle, standard of living will still be poor, and the most problamatic course is there is no developing resource that a country can run with. These are the basic needs of our country.

If major change is to occur everything has to be shuffled. And I dont know what needs shuffling :P

please stick to one username — sweeper

common with all these “issues” going on here with policies, why are you making a mockery out of yourself, sweeper? Please do not make a lunatic out of me for asking you to read your own rules.

Oh my freaking god, there is no defination of “time” here so i have posted at Different times, and I have not used diff nicks to support my arguments.

Hoina kohi namaiera aba ma mathi Kach Kach. k ho.

take it to the message board please — sweeper

What does it say about the Maoists “celebrating” ceasefire by brandishing weapon