Poetry & Prose

But do we really want the same corrupted democracy we had before?

no, but corrupt democracy is better than corrupt monarchy. (Rs. 50 billion misused)

Do we Nepalese have to beg democracy at the doors of the King?
Is Democracy only possible to Nepalese people at the mercy of the King?
If and when the King banks upon Democracy to people, is it really Democracy? when it can be taken away,
isn’t it time to get rid of the possible hindrance to Democracy/Freedom in the long forseen future?
Lets not beg, we fight.

My fear is that this protest serves only to push Nepal into further chaos.

As a thief of wisdom, I use the following quote from Mahatma Gandhi to make my point: “What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?”

The language of people who have an active interest in Nepal is becoming ever more extreme and it is a worrying sign that people seem to have ‘lost their heads.’

Shouldn’t we be looking for solutions and not partaking in violence?

Great read! I enjoyed this well written article. But I would rather see the key being taken from Gyane’s tied up hands. If we let him stay we can tentatively schedule another jana-andolan 10 years from now in our google calendar. We need an inactive President like… not girija, not deuba nor any of these so called leaders… mmm… how about Madan Krishna, Haribangsa (sp?) or Santosh Pant? They probably have better knowledge of prevailing problems in current Nepali societies. And we need a energetic Prime Minister like… again not girija, not deuba nor any of these so called leaders… mmm… little bit older version of gagan thapa (any suggestions?)

I remember very well when I was a little kid, people used to say, We are a poor country but at least we have peace and a rich king !! I thought the King really had a lot of money .. but later I understood what it meant, his country had a rich cultural heritage, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural and multi-religious people living in harmony .. no wonder he was rich in that sense…

Than during 1990s, out of the blue, at school my friends were saying, this guy ‘Ganesh man Singh’ has written a letter saying people should do this and that ..and soon people were out on the street ..

As soon as democracy came, Someone who worked inside one party was saying, they are bringing guns and bombs into the country so be careful when you go out .. and this was just to fight against the other party …Once he said, “we went to a hotel to send back the thugs they brought from India”.. I think this is the moment when Moiast-ism began in Nepal as they learnt to get their hands on guns and bombs… Freedom, brings with it responsibility but I guess, we had not clue of that..and still don’t..

Last 15 years saw India and China and their economy really take off ..but we spent all that time in political wrangling …

Why haven’t the government been able to solve the moaist problem.. Look at Girija.. the almost countless time he was prime Minister he was helped by the communist folks to form a coliation and get the post.. Without the communist folks, he would have gotten the no-confidence vote so many times..

Mr deuba got(was pledged) 20 millions for the Mr Bush to fight the Moaist and still nothing..

Girija, Deuba had offered talks, amnesty etc and even did ‘shock and awe’ with the moaist and still nothing happened …they slowly started taking control of our country ..and nepali folks died left right and center… But now, as Giriaj and Deuba lost power, they have suddenly decided, “the enenmy of my enemy is my friend” and done a deal with them… HUH ?? what happened there ?? They are saying .. hey its not us, it was the king’s fault all this time.. he is to blame for all of this ..

Last 15 years, Girija, Deuba and their cornies fought among themselves to be the Prime Minister, while the country decended into proverty, and even that they couldn’t do well and they went to the King many many times, to say , hey, you should do the elections right now, even if its not due…. or its due now, but you shoudln’t do it now as we are fighting the Moaist.. If you were the king, I’m sure you would be preety fed up by this..

The leaders are using the people to go after the King’s authority, that is why we are seeing all the trouble.. Its a self fulfilling prophecy as they say, If he was autocratic before, he is now ..

Anyway, I think instead of presenting a very biased view with ‘letters to Gayne’ etc by Samudaya… I ASK SAMUDAYA TO DO ONE THING… Instead of going after just the King, Go after Girija and Deuba too and of course, Mr Prachanda.. and I would see some sense in what samudaya is saying or doing ..

Boxcutter, could you please email me at thegreeknepali@hotmail.com. I would be interested to talk to you further about your views. Thanks you

Thanks Ian(DP).. if that is you.. I think I know where to find you and you me, lets keep it at that.. thanks anyway :)

All I’m saying is, when it comes to talking about US of A, you might get a hint of liberal bias in my voice but when it comes to Nepal, I sometimes sound like a neo-con, even I was surprised with myself.. how did that happen??

We got to treat every situation differently with is own merits and demerits ..etc… you can’t use one formula for all.. it would be nice but everywhere in world is not the same …

There are lawyers out on the streets, doctors, nurses, teachers, journalists. Their gathering is not violence. Their act is not “mad destruction.” Innocent bystanders are getting injured and shot at. People are meeting death and bullets right in their residence. Does it look like to you that the king and his government are in the mood to talk about “solutions”? Do you really think that with the kind of repression the king’s men have in their mind, what may appear to be still and calm otherwise is not a larger chaos in the making? But there is a solution, there always has been. It requires putting the king (and then others) in his place first. I don’t know where you are getting your distorted impression of the current events from.

Sure, during thesetimes, its hard to tell whether ppl have ‘lost their heads’ or kept it. Time will tell.
Unfortunate as it is, we r having to fight for a system believed to breed life and liberty, while other nations/societies near and far have prospered/are prospering; and as people miss on it>>>aggression.

‘The language of people who have an active interest in Nepal is becoming ever more extreme and it is a worrying sign that people seem to have ‘lost their heads.’

Could you author, elaborate on above pharase of yours and help me to see how and why is it worrying??? and comprehend me on possible solutions to partake? while I toil on my enuff of other worries?

Forget it, …waiting on King’s mercy.

‘Lets not beg, we fight.’…if the word ‘fight’ put u off or u comprehend it graphically …i suggest u open up urself.

Lets not wait for the Godot and hear your solutions where possibly i’d love to partake on.

Who are you boxcutter?

No, its me, Jhalak Bahadur Kumlagain(Nwaran ko naam-bajele jurako), Thumkegadhi VDC, Jajarkot.
currently: muglan

If you would like to make peace Jhalak you do not talk to your friends -you talk to your enemies.

It worries me that peaceful protestors are calling for the King to have his head chopped off rather than take up his offer to conduct talks.

Whilst constitutional forces are killing each other, what are our friends, the Maoists doing?

Hey, Ian I think you are suprised how I found out about you, its the internet which is all about finding information, you left a key piece of your info. ;)

Talking about info, I think you know very well that people stack one side of the argument so high, that it completely overwhelms you and you think it is the truth.. eg samudaya. ;)

We should take a back seat and analyse the evidence… dig up info .. People just don’t wake up one day and decides to take over a country.. look at what is happening in Iraq now and you kinda realise that maybe there was method in his madness (Saddam) the way he ruled Iraq… 30 years of dictatorship and deaths and even when people are still dying, iraqi folks still can’t decide to form a government… funny eh ..

For power, innocents die.. Look at Nepal, innocents folks dying now… it is becuase the King is trying to hold on to power or is it because the Ex-Leaders are trying to get hold of power ?? No need to say what Prachanda is trying to do….

Anyway, as they say, remember ‘People have a very short memory’ and ‘Truth is the first casulty of war’ ..

BoxCutter’s Friend

“Anyway, I think instead of presenting a very biased view with ‘letters to Gayne’ etc by Samudaya… I ASK SAMUDAYA TO DO ONE THING… Instead of going after just the King, Go after Girija and Deuba too and of course, Mr Prachanda.. and I would see some sense in what samudaya is saying or doing ..”

I visited this site in January 2005 when it was introduced. The royal takeover was in February of 2005. I think this site was designed for the very purpose you have mentioned. I’ve begun to stand by this site because it gave me a feeling of the loss my country surferred because of my own ignorance. This site has given me a purpose to keep interest in my country’s affairs and support it in every little way that I can. I believe if everyone were to believe the same as I do, another Nepal is possible. But the royal takeover came at such a time that it never got to play its role, however; futile it may have seemed, but instead it is playing an even greater role of trying to topple the current regime before it can meet your’s and our need. I believe it will make a lot of sense then and the site will have an even greater responsibility and it will need our involvement. Till then don’t worry my friend, it’s doing what it has to.

“For power, innocents die.. Look at Nepal, innocents folks dying now… it is becuase the King is trying to hold on to power or is it because the Ex-Leaders are trying to get hold of power ?? ”

BoxCutter’s friend

I find your argument highly flawed. are you saying that no matter what the King is doing give him the benefit of the doubt because the few political leaders screwed up for the last 12 years? Are you trying to say innocent are dying because the political parties are out on the street? Firstly I would like to ask what the King has done to deserve such a blind faith? By this logic I would imagine you would say that the Allies did the wrong thing by attacking Germany. Hey many more innocents died during the war than the germans would have managed to kill anyways. Many more innocent people have died under the King’s watch and his dynasty’s watch.

Like it or not today King is the biggest obstacle to peace. If he is not trying to hold on to power why is he so hesitant to let the people decide? If he truly is a democratic monarch why does not he go to the people. If there is such widespread support for the king why is he scared of constituent assembly? His words are hollow. Stop talking about being democratic and caring about the people. Stop the damn felicitation programs. If you truely want to hear what the people have to say just say yest to constituient assembly. Let the people decide. Let the people decide

i think we need a big question mark on the phrase “Another Nepal is possible”.

“Boxcutter’s friend” are you Sagar Tamang?

WTF, while I was away, people seem to have gone at each other. Boxy, watchout bro! Don’t pull Samudaya into the discussion accusing it of being biased. Do you have a love-letter to Prachu that is remotely ‘creative’ than just the usual rhetoric people throw at the reds? Samudaya publishes articles deemed suitable from literary point. Damn, I am sick of reading bad english, but ravingmadman’s satire puts me back on track.

Kancha,

Nobody deserves blind faith and nobody should get blind faith.

The question that just came to my mind, Did we give a blind faith to democracy for the last how many years ?? What did it achieve ?? The main question is how will it achieve things differently in the immediate future ??? with all the problems hanging around ….ie. moaists, party wrangling, same oldies wanna be goldies leaders ..etc..

Protests = King Out or King co-operative = Demand 7 parties to announce all party government = Demand the interim government to call for Constituent Assembly = Keep both the armies under UN supervision = Demand Maoists to participate/co-operate = Referendum for winning Constitution = Winning Constitution votes for democracy = Establishment of Democracy = Active participation and ongoing activities for the growth of a “living” democracy.

Mystichacker Bro,

I was actually getting self conscious posting few comments here today one after another.. I was beginning to feel naked exposed and out of breath and not for the first time.. :)

I was thinking where is Mystichacker bro, when you need him (No jokes)..and behold you are here… :)

Now I can leave while you hold the fort… :)

Talking about war against Hitler, didn’t 20 russian soldiers die for each US soldier killed.. something like that…

PS : I do not think of you when I am naked let’s make that clear ..:)

Referendum for winning Constitution ?? What is that ??? Has this something to do with that P. Bro’s part time hobby, writing Nepal’s constitution ?? Let’s not add to our existing problems ok !! :)

By the way, have you seen his slideshow.. Its hilarious isn’t it .. lol :) After all the hard-hitting stuffs he writes, he does have a sense of humour !!

Why can’t we begin with : Protests = Demand Maoists /King to participate /co-operate

PS: folks who wish to be a public figure (slideshow bob) will be made fun of, its democracy, that is how it works… doesn’t it ..:)

“Why can’t we begin with : Protests = Demand Maoists /King to participate /co-operate”

The Maoists have already stated that they are willing to operate under UN supervision when a Constituent Assembly is announced by an interim government, as long as the RNA is also under UN supervision at the same time. They also declared a ceasefire in Kathmandu valley for the period of protests. The only remaining obstacle at this stage, therefore, is the king and his men, who refuse to step down. It’s not like Maoists are not being dealt with.

People may decide to ask the king to “participate” out of nicety, but that’s not what they exploded their heads open in 1990 for: to be nice to the king. You ask how this time will be different from 1991, not acknowledging all the changes that have occured since then, and then you speak of the king’s participation as if 1991 never happened when the monarch’s role was agreed to be Constitutional, and as if we already didn’t make that decision 14 years ago. Clearly, your memory is suffering from bias.

Sorry to sound so cynical/scarstic.. etc but I didn’t know we are running things under Mr Prachanda’s timetable !!

I thought all these protests were about the people trying to rein in the King’s powers.

Mr Prachanaday is an anti-democractic figure and he is responsible for the belly flop dive of our democracy, :) and if we are bowing to his pressure, did we miss a boat while chanting ‘gyane chor desh chod’ … Shouldn’t it be the other way round !!

Boxy, meet my friend Sarahana. Sarahana, meet my biggest fan on Samudaya, Boxy.

And you seem to think we are running things under the king’s timetable. How did we bow down to Prachanda? They’ll have to unarm, and they’ll have to participate in Constituent Assembly. Likewise, they’ll have to accept its outcome. Is this box of yours empty, cutter?

“They will have to do this.. they will have to do that… ” This is only directed against the King as far as I can see, so that is what I am saying… make a bigger noise against Mr Prachanda also…

We are assuming so much … blind faith .. who said that earlier .. :) If everyone did what they were suppose to, we wouldn’t be here would we.. that is why people are fighting to make things happen their way.. :)

Hey, You make it sound as if tomorrow, if the moaist were to get rid of the king, everything will become honky-dory(fine) and democracy will reign.. I don’t understand when Mr Prachanda become such a legitimate force ..

Thanks Miss S, I had a good chat today.. I goota go…

Mystichacker Bro,

I’m thinking why am I doing so much guff here today.. I slept in the evening and woke up and ever since I have been here .. its past 2am now..

Hey, you are my Z-list celebrity, of course, I am your fan :)

Only in the previous comment I said, “They’ll [Maoists] have to unarm, and they’ll have to participate in Constituent Assembly. Likewise, they’ll have to accept its outcome.” Bias, bias, bias, you say. I think you’re the one who’s biased, and blind to half the things I say. Go sleep.

Who is talking about blind faith on the parties? Our 12 year experiment failed becuase of our blind faith. In my mind it is better late than never. So make some noise. Make some noise against the king for he stands in the way now. Make noise against the parties in the future so that they don’t fuck it up like before. And boxcutters friend how about you write a letter to Prachanda instead of posting flawed arguments here so you we all can make soem noise against Prachanda. In the end all I can say is In ourselves we trust. I wish people would stop pointing out how biased we are and actually write something of their own for the site.

Mr.Boxcutter’s Friend… if people votes for Maoist like people of Palestine voted for Hamaas and if Prachandra does not deliver for the people then time will come when people will rise up and kick out Prachandra too. At present the country is ruled by so called King Gyane, he was given the opportunity by majority of the people. Just look back to last 14 months and you should be able analyse yourself what kind of king we have(visiting different countries in Dec, 2005 taking with him RNAC boeing jet for 3 weeks, RNAC had to cancel many flights during that period with massive loss, Paras visiting Austria to donate rhinos visit cost $1million, one x-bishesh anusandhan officer living in Denver says that those rhinos are sold in the name of donation to foreign country zoo)… once known to be a smuggler and his son so called crown prince is known to be pshyco, murderer. Since, 1990 after we got so called democracy the royal family and the royalists have been using all their resources to bring the democracy to its knees which they succeeded due to some inept politician… in democracy people, parties and politicians learn the lessons and I hope this time it will be different than the past… we can only hope for the future when we don’t know what will happen… during these last 12 days the real Gyane and his govt is fully exposed… they want power by any means. A true king does not use force(guns against rocks, tear gas, battons against peaceful demonstration).

Not only that we have been saying that Maoist are terrorist but, whereas this govt is worse than that… in the name of terrorism this king has killed more civilians than Maoist after the army was used. I am not a supporter of Maoist but, what is difference between this govt. and Maoist when people living in villages have to fear from both.

If you look back to our country’s history… in 2017BS when BP was PM only 4 seats won by communist party but, in 2047BS about 90… who is to blame for this??? Who ruled during 2017BS and 2046BS??? Ranas ruling the country for 104 years putting the country in total darkness when India benefited even from the British raaj(education foundation, railway structure and many more where as our parents could not study during that time) who brought the ranas to power(the so called Bishnu’s avatar the king) and who had to bail the king from the royal palace arrest in 2007BS(Nepali Janata, Nepali congress with the help of India).

As i see it, the King has a number of options left:

1. Step down and hand over power to the political parties.

2. Impose Marshall Law and begin a ruthless drive to bring law and order back

3. Negotiate with the Maoists and appoint Prachanda as Prime Minister and outflank the political parties completely.

4. Negotiate with the political parties to form some kind of settlement with an all part government.

5. Sit and wait until the protests lose their momentum as people realise there is no food, no petrolium and a shortage of basic supplies.

The King’s options are not limited but some are unrealistic (3 for instance!).

Further to the earlier point about biasness, these are my observations:

1. ALL are biased. Every one thinks they are taking the middle ground but conflict polarises our opinions.

2. This is just a blog. It is not intended to be neutral and was set up for this purpose. All views expressed in this blog are to put forward a particular idealogy.

3. Any type of author (Jounalist, blogger etc) have a responsibiliy to its audience not to incite conflict and extremism. Just look at Kantipur and look at the emotive language they are using to incite protest against the state.

4. If you do not like it -do not read it . You can not change views that are written in stone but you can temper your own views with reason.

Sounds and looks like a goon!

Thunnu nai parcha!

So. Kathmandu Research Center reports that approximately Rs.1bn of transaction money is being lost per day due to closures. Not only does that indicate what level of direct economic costs the citizens are willing to suffer to continue their struggle for the restoration of democracy, it also indicates the opportunity cost to the government from not receiving tax revenues from that income. The government share in Nepal has consistently been around 25%, which implies that in the last month alone HMG lost at least $Rs.7bn in taxes, or what is equivalent to approximately half of its monthly budget.

The conclusion is that the citizens are poorer than they should have been. But interestingly, so is Gyanendra. Further, given that his current political situation looks grim, one would wonder whether if monarchy and the feudal elites had actually played their cards correctly history would have pardoned them. At the end of the day, the people will win; they always do. And instead of being a wealthy and loved constitutional monarch like Queen Elizabeth, Queen Beatrice or Emperor Akihito, Gyanendra will be but a commoner.

“So. Kathmandu Research Center reports that approximately Rs.1bn of transaction money is being lost per day due to closures. Not only does that indicate what level of direct economic costs the citizens are willing to suffer to continue their struggle for the restoration of democracy…”

I wonder how you can make such arguments. Do you think those folks in the street know so much about economics? Do you think they understand the potential dangers of strikes of this kind? A day of work lost is lost forever. These freaks do not understand this.
Otherwise, who would be so stupid as to vandalise a branch of himalayan bank? Why would they set the vehicles on fire?These freaks do not understand that we are destroying our own property. And this has no positive effect to the ongoing movement. After all its we,the Nepalese, who are going to bear the loss.
We have become the victim of irrational minds.

Ian’s Blog

I have put some of my thoughts into a blog since i find these posts to be to short to share my views. If any one is interested please feel free to visit.

I wonder how you can say that they don’t ‘understand the potential dangers of strikes’ when they live it day in and day out. One need not be an academic with gaudy economic theories to conclude that if vehicles don’t move and shops don’t have goods to sell, then it is going to not only put upward pressure on prices but create a sense of general desperation amongst the people. Of course, vandalism is unwaranted, but neither is His Majesty’s arrogance (not to mention his escapism, where the hell is the king in all this?) and the shooting of protesters. If general state of country’s well being is a concern, we need to learn to look at Nepal beyond one person and listen to the voices of many. Freakishly many!

I agree it’s inevitable that the people will win. It’s just the matter of when and with how many casualties.

What worries me is what happens next…

I’m interested in finding out what our samudaya intellects will do then, or is it back to ‘drinking a bud and watching the game’?

There’s a certain bushist mentality here — let’s get democracy first and hope the sh*t falls into place. Since we’re (pple abroad) not involved in the struggle first hand, and have the luxury of being observers and commenters, shouldn’t our concern be focused on the resulting chaos that will insue? What will happen when the citizens realize that democracy does not put food on their tables, or build roads and hospitals, or provide security, etc?

Or shall we start preparing for jana-andolan 2020? As I see it, we get “democracy”, the parties bicker amongst themselves, each MP builds a new house, the marginalized people revolt, an extremist takes over, we realize authoritarian system sucks, start another round of protests, people die… and recycle.

We want dwon-yu-kwashi (bull testicles)?

here’s an alternate ending to your hyperbolic reality:

people take over, democratic system will work, check and balances fall in places, judiciary start working under constitution, no one is marginalized because now there is broader participation through different class levels, funds pour-in from US, UK, EU, Japan, India for further strengthening of democratic foundation. Growing Indian and Chinese economic boom spill over to Nepal. Nepal becomes the hub of technology outsourcing, economy grows by leaps and bounds, Paramendra officially announces to run for the PM of Nepal. All the present Nepalis will rush to move back to Nepal.

roast a bull’s testicles in this celebration.

Cheers to that m’hacker bro!

However, my assertions above are hardly hyperbolic. I think you will agree that it has merit based on historic outcomes.

I’m all about peachy outlooks seen through rose-colored specs but… It’s not just my skepticism speaking, rather you can call it legitimate concerns. You say at the end of your theory that “All the present Nepalis will rush to move back to Nepal”; BUT I believe this is the prerequisite to all the advancements you mentioned previously.

So the questions becomes, are we (at least the ones that do the talking now) willing to give up the luxuries of western living and return to obscurity and uncertainty for a greater good?

Or else, I’m afraid the recycling will continue…

Dear Mr Ian,
‘Chaos in Kathmandu serves the Maoists’
How?
Would you share with us, if u had any ‘classified’ information???
Yes, Nepalese people are having to fight many other battles; Maoists,Economy,Corruption…etc etc.
Foremost; a ground(democracy) from whre we can take on other sharks,bulls,lions,hyenas,…a hunting pack of like minded ppl in Samudaya and elsewhere, everywhere can make it possible.
Where did u borrow ur skepticism about the current crisis in Nepal?…its interesting…ur blog.

i am sure there is a middle-ground between your ‘assertions based on historic outcomes’ and my ‘peachy outlook’. the natural law of duality itself restricts extremism at most times.

although i partly agree that there is a prerequisite (of Nepalis moving back?) to futher advance the cause (whether political, social or economic) i believe we (those abroad) tend to underestimate the capacity of ‘resident nepalis’. times have changed since 1990 and there is no doubt that nepali population have matured with it also. perhaps a conducive environment (democratic and open society, less bureaucracy and control) is all they need to express different shades of nepali aptitude.

Dear Jhalak,

I am glad that you found my Blog interesting. I do not have classified information but i am offering my own observations and i do try to explain why i think it serves the interests of the Maoists. Perhaps i did not explain myself very well. Sorry for that!

Dear Mr Reality Check,

I call it skeptism, and yours is a legitimate concern, let it be legitimate(‘coz history hounds you and you cannot think of outside the box).

At my age and times, history doesn’t hound me and the prospect Mr M’Hacker has put, lures me…does it not to you?

I know, it is a slow process and probably would not bear fruit for generations to come but mine.

What next, well u read ‘Hacker and how to go about it is sure a daunting reality, and would you not persever, if not for urself, but infuse others?

And trivial, very, sounded to me, ‘western luxury’. You obviously know there are 1000 and 1 ways to partake and help build a society/country, do not you?

Shall we comprehend on other possible legitimate thoughts my friend! What do you say?

I’m sure no one is expecting a seamless transition, even though we’ve had the practice once before.

I’d really like to know if people (especially the one’s here) have tangible solutions to all the issues that will arise once democracy is restored. Are we aware of the feasibility and the logistics of implementing an infrastructure that will ensure all the proper advancements in economic, political, and social sectors?

I’m afraid this time around we cannot afford to crumble under the stress of socio-economic and political burden. It’s dandy to seek democracy and liberty and all that great stuff, but do we have what it takes to sustain the ideology?

Come’on intellects, what’s the next step? Or are we awaiting iraq’s fate…

Dear JhalakB (err yoda),

Ignoring history and it’s lessons will be our downfall. It is dangerous to chase after peachy prospects without being aware of all the pitfalls.

As I said, we cannot afford to have another setback because of unreal expectations and improper implementation. So I’m just trying to see if the intellectuals here, who so vigorously defend their capacity, can teach me a thing or two about how to build a nation. Suggestions?

It really boggles my mind how people readily associate Nepal’s political situation with that of Iraq. For starters, Iraq was ‘invaded’ by an external force (thus natural resistence against it), whether to transplant democracy or simply to position American interests in the Middle-East, we quite don’t know. Whereas Nepal’s struggle to restore some fundamentally working political and social order is borne out people’s experience and NEED. Second, Iraq’s political experience is different from Nepal’s in that Nepalis HAVE had opportunity to experiment with democracy. So what if did not produce the greatest result the first time, learning from past experience is well within human potential, unless your acute skepticism blocks the very process that you so conspicuously enjoy living elsewhere.

If you seek post-conflict planning as prerequisite to bringing awareness, I doubt you see functions of contributers/commenters who write on Samudaya more than intellectual blurbs that need venting. FYI, there are currently projects (theoritical and applied) underway (both here and in Nepal) at different levels — individual and institutional, academic and functional.

The programs of economic and political development are carried out at policy levels throughout different sections of society. We already have a basic blueprint of democratic framework. There needs to be accountability and tranparency through all levels of governance, which is mostly provided by having a free press, and in Nepal’s case, we do have a fairly good press/media already compared to other smaller/poorer countries.

No sir, we neither run classes nor take any liability in teaching you about nation building. If you feel it is your nation that needs building, we suggest you realize your duty as much as you desire to reap the rights that will be granted to you as a democtatic citizen. Else, move away and let people do their job.

Jhalak Bahadur ki ET Bahadur ho?

Be careful what you wish for..you just might get it!

A bloody Khmer Rouge-like Nepal is in the offing. Maoists will just eradicate Girija and his goons if they ever manage to overthrow the monarchy.

yes, and ‘theoritically’ why is maoists ruling the country on their agenda a foregone conclusion — a big no no?

Khame Rouge like government is already in place. If it is a choice between two rocks then it is time that we unite to crush them both. One by one. Enough is enough.

Box:
What excatly are you trying to say?
You seem to imply that the political leaders are no good but yet you don’t explicitly say “support the king”. What is your position?
Also Box we are not supporting the political leaders, we are supporting a SYSTEM by which better leaders will have the chance to develop and lead the country in the future… I don’t think anyone will argue that the current batch of political leaders are stale and way past their expiration date.

Hey after Feb 1 I gave the King the benefit of the doubt. I used to come here and battle the Sarahanas in support of the King. But clearly as Richard Boucher put it the King’s strategies has led to nowhere.
The biggest problem is that the King seems to think there is a military solution to the Maoist problem. Do you belive that?
Hell if he played his cards right (didn’t clamp down on the press, improved public services, appointed a good blemish free cabinate and took concrete steps to find a way to reach a settlement with the Maoists) I would have given him another 2 years to build “a strong foundation for meaningful democracy” (I got that from one of those billboards around ktm with the king’s quotes).

[Iraq’s fate???…how do u relate that to Nepali situation awaiting a fate, such!…amusing.]

Again,
Dear Mr RealityCheck:

You wouldn’t really expect people ‘here’ to have a tangible solutions to ‘help build a nation’, post Democracy that is, would you? And if ‘these’ people had such ‘expertise’ they wouldn’t be here, would they? We all know where they should be/would be, we do.

People here make an ‘effort’ to understand and ‘weigh’ on possiblities for our Nation to move forward. It is rightful and a civic responsibility. The bisque of the masses then transcends to help guide the leadership who make best informed decisions on the policies and possibilities of a nation.And DEMOCRACY is a pre-requisite to such phenomenon.

Practice of good/moral governance, execution of policies (and best use of available resources) by the leadership and its bodies is all that is needed to build our nation, its that simple isn’t it? what is not is; do we have such leadership??? We do not know yet. There wasn’t in the history books doesn’t mean we stop looking for or try to breed a new one. Some found one in Paramendra, some in Gagan or it cud as well be ur brother Mr ‘check, we know the spirit we are looking for.

A fight to defy History, u call it ignorance Mr ‘Check; pitfalls, setbacks…blah blah blah…may be u r having repercussions of a caged Canary who felt safe in the cage and feared of dying in the wild with constipation.

Thus, strongly suggested it is my friend,start with self belief, u may reach far from where u are.

To the contrary, it boggles my mind to see intellectuals disregarding the similarities in our current struggle with that of Iraq. Certainly, we were not invaded by a third nation and coerced into accepting a diluted form of democracy; thus our democracy, when we have it, will unquestionably be more fruitful. However, the reconstruction of a feudal and religiously based society held together by an authoritarian ruler into something much more egalitarian, in a nation where majority of the people are illiterate and cannot begin to participate in the system, will parallel those of Iraq. How will we settle the already-brewing civil war between the class and religious divides?

And yes, post-conflict planning should be a prerequisite; otherwise we are all witnessing the consequence of such failure in Iraq. With all the evidence, and first hand experience we’ve had as a result of the inability to implement proper strategies and checks and balances, it boggles my mind that people would consider careful planning just a illusionary discomfort of a skeptical mind.

It also boggles my mind that some prominent samudayans are so defensive, and are prone to ‘counter-intellectualize’ any view that may question the ‘popular belief’ here and is met with hostility; even genuine inquiries to share ideas are blasted as irreverent rhetoric. Or may be I’m just a being sensitive :)

I do not believe that you are being too sensitive. The strength of an argument is not measured by its popularity but by its ability to withstand criticism.

Wanting to stay in a cage because you fear dying of constipation in the wild is a very real one… and it should be. Why would you fight to escape the cage just to die a meaningless death? The glorification of such ideas is exactly what I fear — the bushist ideal about liberty and freedom with no regards to real human conditions.

To confirm, I am in total solidarity with the struggle of the Nepali people, and want democracy restored. That was never the argument. I was trying to challenge the intellectuals here to see if any tangible and quantitative ideas were floating among the well-wishers, other than just the usual rhetoric.

If people weren’t so full of metaphoric predispositions and pretentious overtones, we could actually discuss some tangible and practical next steps for advancement of the nation.

I guess JhalakB has a point: “You wouldn’t really expect people ‘here’ to have a tangible solutions to ‘help build a nation’, post Democracy that is, would you?”

Bhudai Pundit :

Within a week of the royal takeover, King offered talks to the Moaists .. BBC News

I THINK our leaders have refused talks with the King 3(??) times so far..

If your answer is, who the hell does he think of himself, I urge you to say the same about Mr Prachanda and our former leaders who are the real culprits as far as I am concerned !!

We are human beings, we have selective memory :)

Did KPBhattarai take whisky mixed with Kalo Padartha during his royal audience? What this guy bla blaing by saying Constituent Assembly not necessary?

KP Bhattarai is a man who likes his drink! Is is possible that he said it - I think he wants to become prime minister of Nepal again.
My question is why Gyenandra is meeting KP instead of the leaders of the political parties …

I do not know anything else but if the political leaders join handa with that mofo king i am going to support maoist. at least there will be a possibility of international interest if nepal becomes a communist state. otherwise who gives a fuck about nepal. even a lot of fucking nepali including myself are just FLEEers from the problem and yell from outside just like i am doing right now and donate some money now and then for agitating freedom fighters. and that is about it.

If you want to get rid of Parase, this is the time to push the monarchy off the cliff. The King’s moves has always remained suspicious. This king is not credible, and his son to be terrible. It is time to think of the Golden Nepal.

I really don’t have time for this sappy self-reflecting session—assessing sensitivity and consequently getting affirmation from others. But here’s to you anyway.

What reconstruction? There needs massive deconstruction of existing system before you can even think of ‘reconstructing’ something that remotely resemble your idea of a dilute democracy. On relative basis, last several centuries of embedded cynicism needs to be washed away before you can paint any legible picture that would provide solace to the general Nepali mind, and in doing so, several years, heck 10 years of experiment CANNOT be held has a report card to gauge the strength of democracy—people’s participation forever.

Whether across political lines or ethnic lines, ‘containing’ the existent ‘already brewing-civil war’ as you put it is no solution even if we were to again buy into your hyperbole of ‘religious and ethnic war’. Rather, it is a ‘pressure-cooker’ type recipe for disaster. How is a Nepali who questions some of the discriminatory policies of either social or religious order signifying the ‘brewing religious strife’ in Nepal? Or, any ethnic groups forming organizations to empower their people reflect trouble with the existent elite? Besides, ‘strife’ only occurs when both parties stand stubborn on preserving the outdated codes that have no relevance in modern times. If either party is flexible, where is the tension? As a reconstruction project, why don’t you change your perspective? Get a much panoramic view. Surely that’ll be a reality check for you.

And if you are seriously concerned about ‘reconstruction’, why don’t you start with assisting injured protesters financially, or is it that your priority lies only on popping up at Samudaya and gauging its continual support for the ongoing movement. There’s no Samudaya rhetoric; it is an open agenda—-break the existing system, dismantle it and construct a new one. Why, do you wish to participate? There’s a general Samudaya email somewhere on the site.

ian wrote ~”do not believe that you are being too sensitive. The strength of an argument is not measured by its popularity but by its ability to withstand criticism.”

i like it!

Ha proficiency in reading chinese wisdom cookies indeed!

Pertaining to Iraq and the situation in Nepal, I must confess that I fail to see the parallels that seem so readily apparent to some (myopia is an issue I know :-))

As far as the tangibles are concerned, agreed that an enormous amount of work lays ahead for Nepal. The primary one I think is that Society as a whole has to be challenged on its feudal notions, but, as noted by others, notions of Feudal and Religious superiority will take a long time to overcome.

As to participation of the majority of populace in the Democractic system, again, education needs to be the focus, but, how is education to be a focal point when children don’t dare enter schools where Maoists take cover and are subject to arrest/kidnapping either on the way to school or on the way back home?

I harbour no illusions that the restoration of Democracy like a magic potion will cure all social/political ills that affect Nepal, but, I do believe that Democracy being a more transparent system means the populace at large has a larger say as to what happens in terms of where the funding goes (other than the current millions going to quell the populace and the clarion calls for Democracy)
*****************
Jazzy M’Hacker-good going here :-)

Hello Everyone,

This is not time to waste precious moments in discussing who did what in past. Of course everybody amdmitted mistake except king. So now is the time to consolidate and unite all and bring democracy. Forget past, lets begin and establish “LOKTANTRA”.

This king must be penalized. All his and his kins’ property must be nationalized and ALL ROYAL MEMBERS must be jailed with sever most possible way. Once again

LOKTANTRA JINDABAD
RAJTANTRA MURDABAD
GYANE LAI SAJAYA MILNAI PARCHA
NO MORE MONARCHY IN NEPAL

JAI DESH JAI LOKTANTRA VIJAY

why do we think that the monarchy is such a sacred institution? what has the monarchy ever done for nepal? or for that matter what have all the people who’ve ever held power in modern nepal done for nepal? why do we keep talking about allowing some form of monarchy to remain? if a republican democracy is good enough for most countries isn’t a republican democracy good enough for nepal?

Gyane has been mislead by the likes of blogdai and now taken in for a ride by a number of RNAs who have been continually been benifitted since NOV 2001 RNA deployment. Now imagine this scenario: State of Emergency, Marshall Law, Army running the country, mutiny, meaningful democracy.

Actually Gyane is a plot maker like all those ranas in our country’s history.

There are two ways to win the war without hurting civilians. To draw plot against Gyane (which can be difficult). or to draw police and army to people’s side. After all, the police and army are also nepalis with heart and they have families too. If there own families stand up for the safety of other civians then there is very less harm that army can do to others.

There’s definitely no need for sappy ‘love-fest’ here; I neither need the affirmation from my peers nor confirmation of my perspective.

And again, this is not an argument against establishing democracy; I agree that there is no alternative. Some of you need to get that thru your thick heads, I’m amused by the ‘red-neck’ mentality of if you don’t support our exact efforts for democracy, then you’re a terrorist. WTF?

I have and will continue to question the intellects on what I perceive to be the deficiency in their efforts. For those of us (I think majority here) that have the luxury of being distant observers of the conflict, I don’t believe it’s sufficient to just push for change (with moral and minute financial support); we also have the responsibility to devise the next steps. A systematic change is inevitable, so how will we sustain it?

There’s a fine line between deconstruction of existing social disparity and destruction of society as a whole. The notion and rhetoric, and it is that, about “changing the system and the nepali mentality” has been regurgitated for 100 years with no quantifiable implementation. How many 2017, 2036, 2042 and 2063 are necessary for democracy to survive? M’hacker bro the skepticism isn’t based on just 10 years of experiment; it’s compilation of the all democratic efforts since the end of Rana regime. If we overlook the proper execution again, this discussion will again arise in another decade. It is not adequate to have few western-educated expatriates with ultra liberal agendas screaming their lungs out from seven seas away. I don’t understand why seeking tangible solution is considered a flawed effort?

The Samudaya agenda IS just rhetoric at present as the participants here do not include the actual agitating population; neither is our ideas being dispersed among the common people of Nepal. So let’s not flatter ourselves, we are just hapless spectators. The people of Nepal know what they’re fighting for and our moral support, at best, will add to their resolve. What they need from those with an advantage of being away from the conflict is not just more “fightin’ words”, but real applicable answers to many issues that will unavoidably be raised once the struggle is finalized.

amen

the agitating population does not like hearing from hapless overseas observers what they should next after they’ve agitated the life out of themselves. we are “hapless spectators” whether we come up with real answers or “fighting words.” we are not, by our distance, better able to do one than the other. the agitators know that questions await answers, and they also know that they’re going to be the ones to have to answer (not us).

Again, preacher has his congregation gathered apparently. No shit he gets all ‘Bush-Iraq’ regarding Nepal also.

No need for your ‘off the tangent’ rhetoric. Thank you. Question the intellectuals at your own peril, who feel at no liberty to disclose their projects to EVERY amatuer random commenters that visit Samudaya and beg for attention (believe me, it’s not an easy job). Again, IF you are seriously concerned about events unfolding rather than simply taking swing at people on comments section, I suggest you display some amout of genuine curiosity and not the usual ‘embedded Nepali skepticism’, or even propose to provide your own solution to the inevitable crisis (ccording to you), perhaps. A comments section is a comments section; seek clarity in articles produced and projects carried out.

Hot damn!

due to the urgent need of the hour,
i have henceforth turned into
a sheep. baahhha…

preach on, holy fathers (and sisters)

A sad quandary for sad expatriates

…and a happy one who observes rather than participate.

fu*k hacker,
i’m not happy. with all the banks closed, all my god damn money is frozen. plus apparently, there’s no water and food at home. and my brother is sick. call out for insular self interested bastards, and i’ll dutyfully (using my civic righte eh) and unashamedly raise my hand. i’m an angry kathmanduite turned sad expact and i want the king out.

what do you reckon, if i give my obligatory 10 bucks to the medical fund, will my anger subside?

yeah well, f@uck you too. suck it up like rest of my brothers and sisters back home.

How many of you, who writes over here, haven’t manipulated the Nepal’s twisted system in the past??? Or may be your close relatives??
Haven’t you guys realise that we are basically surrounded by either a corrupted person or their corrupted spawn.

Aren’t we the one who manipulated the system…granted cronyism and escalated corruption????

Politics is definitely the right action in events… Politician do take chances……
Who gave the chance for King to do all this? Who is responsible for this pandemonium??
(these questions basically goes to Sarahana A.k.a antimonarch and mystichacker A.k.a Mr. Obscene)

WE? speak for yourself, thanks for the honesty.

lau na lau,
do you hold congressionals on sundays too?

maile “fuck you” bhanya hoina, maile ta “fuck!” po bhanya ta.

i take back my obscenity, rest still hold.

We didn’t manipulate the system. We gained from the one that was already in place, defined in all its perfection precisely to benefit the stronger. The only thing that can be done is change it. Change it not with the expectation that it will be a white angel with pink lips tomorrow. But change it so that the process can begin and the burden will be increasingly less. The agitators believe the king must be out for this process to commence. In the absence of democracy, nothing can be done with the corrupt.

I haven’t misused the system, in any case, because I was too young to while I was there. I’m sure most grown-ups in my family have, but as an individualist I don’t take responsibility for them. As someone who is interested in change, I take responsibility for all, family or not, obviously.

Hacker, I left the chill pill on your desk. Sanchai. Hera hai.

Shortage exaggerated-suppliers

Hot damn, indeed!

I was mistaken. I had the wrong impression that this site was actually for sharing ideas among the displaced yet concerned. If the ‘owners’ of Samudaya truly believe that we are “hapless spectators” whether we come up with real answers or “fighting words” and are incapable of any tangible contribution and that they “feel at no liberty to disclose their projects to EVERY amateur random commenter that visit Samudaya” then do excuse my ignorance. I would think that any and every ‘project’ and ideas that can make a difference would be shared among the ‘armatures’ and participation would be encouraged, but alas not all of us are worthy of such disclosure.

I’m just one of many not-totally-aware-yet-motivated amateurs, who was seeking a place for further education. May I put in a suggestion, although at the cost more ridicule—I think if the ‘owners’ were less concerned with defending their self-image and not ultra-sensitive to any opposing or disparaging remarks, it would lessen the deprecating exchanges. Or is it just about receiving pats-on-the-back from group of similar-thinking alumni from “we know best” school of thought, and have Saturday afternoon bar-b-q disguised as ‘protest’ gatherings?

I shall seek alternative portals in parallel, which induces proper discussion.

Of course, it woould be shared, but at more functional level was what I meant to imply, not just RANDOMLY at comments sections, with every appearing commenters.

If you’d like to know of our involvement in projects, we would be happy to let you know, just that it is cumbersome to do it on one-on-one basis, over and over again, that’s all.

RCheck,
You’ve really got to stop lumping everyone together. You don’t even know who is samudaya and who is not to begin with (because we’ve never really fully disclosed that).

In any case, I was being sarcastic about being “hapless spectators.” But if we can’t legitimately utter “fighting words,” then by the same logic we can’t come with “real solutions” precisely because we’re not there. Reality would be an obstacle to our lovely solutions with happy endings (and yes, we’ve all heard this before). I, for one, do not agree with the word “expatriate” or the term “native country.” I think they are both misleading. But go find other portals if you want. As long as you’re dealing with the pool of Nepali commentators available this day, it’s the same everywhere. But I like ours better.

Sarahana:
may be holds true on your’s case.But I hardly doubt about 2 million residents of ktm valley.
And, I didnt really quite realise that my subsequent post would start with ‘I’. I was expecting ‘we’. Did I unknownly pointed personlly? Since you guys write more than others and more alert( as I can see by getting 5 post in 5 minutes),i pumped one to you.
And, by the way,
We are “hapless spectator”

The spectators in Kathmandu are as hapless as we are. This has nothing to do with being the diaspora, or the native land. This right here is participation, though perhaps it is not recognized as one because we’re not burning tyres?

In happy news, we just printed a fresh lot of “Naya Nepal sambhav chha” posters in Nepal. Nayantara and our other samudaya friends have been running around to get that done, and distribute them. Young ones there love it, they find it engergetic. I don’t know man, that sounds like participation to me. I’m not saying we’re doing fabulous things, I’m just saying you’ve got to redefine particpation and make any small choice, if that’s what you want, to not be a mere spectator. I am protesting against, in short, a pre-packaged idea of participation. Give yourself a break.

Of course, residents of Kathmandu are always at fault-by default, by the virtue of being in Kathmandu, what load of bull. What logic even, ok so everyone is at fault. Lets just keep at that and never attempt for any ‘reformation’, ‘hapless spectator’ indeed!

“Nationality is no bar. In the audience are leftists and Mao nostalgists from Italy, Britain, Iran, Ireland, Turkey, China, India, the Philippines and even Tibet. ‘A new world is possible’ is the WPRM’s motto and the rhetoric and jargon that floats thickly across the room is more Dickensian than Marxist.”
World Revolution

did you guys see this? even the maoists seem to have stolen the samudaya logo aba. a new world is possible re! what is this world coming to… :)

BTW have you guys heard of a new group called ‘The New School’, who call Maoists ‘reactionaries’. Their motto goes something like ‘reviving incomplete revolutions all over the world’. The premise is that leaving one or two countries (perhaps) people’s revolution all over the world has remained incomplete, and it is apparently time to rejuvenate them. They are very media-shy, but I’ll post a link if I’m lucky enough.

R-Check,
Pardon my intrusion into this fray, but, if I may, what exactly do you envision those of us outisde of Nepal doing at this time that would be substantial/meaningful to you?

I know that there has always been and likely will be a justifiable amount of resentment from people in the movement when those of us that have lived outside without having to face the rain of batons on our heads et all are possessed of such arrogance as to believe that we have the solutions for a better Nepal - is it not possible/feasible that people on the ground, those that wage this protest day in and day out and put their lives on the line have a better idea of what is needed? If not, why do you suppose they are there on the streets? Surely, being beaten to a pulp and shot dead isn’t the new form of social activity in the streets of KTM is it?

As far as Samudaya is concerned, I would’nt want to speak for them but as a relatively new person on this forum, I think there is a lot of value to the work that is being down through this portal. It is not just a place for idealistic notions and rhetoric. Rhetoric may indeed be the staple of blogs but they also lead to the airing of questions that have to be answered, Perhaps, the answers are not to your satisfiaction but again, as Nepali youth living outside Nepal, our participation in the ongoing movement is necessarily limited (more so than people on the streets who are themselves confined)
***********************
Jazzy M’Hacker- I concur with Sarhana, take that pill she left for you! :-)

That’s right, samudaya and its far reaching influence in high places. Here.

A letter to gyane —  — dear sir,

please leave the country or we will kill you

sincerely,

nepali public

ladies and gentleman, please spare my brother Birbhadra, he is more blunt than i am.

Kripa (et al),

The inquiries you pose are exactly the ones I struggle with during these self-reflection sessions. What I have aren’t answers, rather theories based on my knowledge of the conflict and historical analysis of the outcome. I do not know of the agitation first hand and I left Nepal when I was too young to understand the issues, so I formulate my views based on third-party education (or opposition to them) and media coverage. I also incorporate relevance from other similar struggles in history in Nepal and other nations. I seek to learn from more learned of my peers.

The thing is we CAN utter the “fightin’ words” and basically that’s all we seem do. I attend dinners and gatherings and conferences and all I hear is “fightin’ words”. We are not suppressed from these outbursts. Although I personally do not see the point in these ‘protests’ abroad, if the solidarity somehow strengthens the movement back home, then more power to them. But do we need to ‘throw stones and burn tires” here to be active participants? I think the wheel is in motion back home and our efforts here, while some could see as commendable, may be perceived as disingenuous efforts to appear relevant. I think the fight is well within reach now. So shouldn’t there be more productive dialogue to discuss how to cope with the aftermath? In my view, that is what the intellectual should be concocting because we have the luxury to do so.

Because, sometimes, being away from the conflict and having the advantage of dissecting the issues without the extraneous circumstances gives us the benefit of devising a constructive solution to many (of course not all) issues. Obviously, the citizens back home will be the curators of democracy and it’s advancements. But some of us would like to contribute. Does the fact that we weren’t there for the struggle void our right to post-conflict rebuilding?

It is agreed upon that democracy WILL be restored, correct? And we as a diaspora can do little other than moral support or raise some funds to maintain the agitation. But once the struggle is over, is our job done? Are we back to “having a bud and watching the game”?

R-Check,

I don’t think that being away from Nepal necessarily means that we cannot praticipate in the movement, nor, do I think that we as concerned Nepalese are relegated to fundrasing for medical attention; however, I do think that we as NRN’s have to be very wary of appointing the moniker of “Intellectuals” on ourselves.

Yes we have the benefit of an education system that is different from that which prevails in Nepal; however, does that really give us the right to jump in with ideas which in all likelihood are bound to be thrown by the wayside as “idealistic westernized” notions that have little place or relevance to the needs of Nepal.

I agree with you that there is a lot of work that Nepalese abroad can do for Nepal but, as far as where we go in the aftermath of the restoration of Democracy is concerned, I believe is an issue that those in Nepal have to tackle. Can we help with ideas and some sort of brainstorming to see what would be feasible/viable? sure. Ought we take the “intellectual high ground” and be pompous enough to believe that we know best because we have the luxury to do so? Hell no!

I think the best approach would be for us to help from the sidelines. I do think that there is a lot that we as recippients of privilege of education can do, example, helping with re-building, working as volunteers over the break to help stabilize children who are victims of the conflict, help re-write laws that are discriminatory etc..all these, to me, seem to be within the realm of possibilities but, purely in a secondary capacity. The people of Nepal, living in Nepal, have to be the one’s to decide.

Also, my discussions are based on the foregone conclusion that democracy will prevail. When and until that happens, our lashing out will only be considered irreverent bitc*ing. I don’t want to be the disgruntled “wannabe freedom fighter from the sidelines”, as any contribution of mine will be unrecognizable compared to what the populace back home is doing. I don’t see the need to express how much I hate the repressive regime and why it should be removed as they are all a given; why waste our time with the obvious?

How readily you build assumptions. ‘Intellectuals’, by which I assume you mean contributers and commenters here on Samudaya, are not full-time people. They have no privilege to travel around conferences and ‘hear’ emotional outbursts, but, they are committed individuals who contribute whatever they can, whenever they can, on a much constructive level than you normally see otherwise — spewing obscenity et al. That is our (more precisely mine) style, like it or not!

Leaving your sincere apologetic torrent aside, most of us are in no better position to assess situation but through regular channels, just like you, except that we have few individuals who provide us with different dimensions concerning the ongoing conflict in Nepal. And we have few more here and elsewhere who actually make effort to study through some of the boring details and produce articles as pieces of opinions, all voluntarily, so that people like you can show up and damand to see the ‘post-conflict reconstruction agenda’. Hold your horses, we will be out there in academic conferences soon enough to satisfy your urges.

Why do I sense that either you think of Samudaya as a ‘think tank’, exposing itself to provide reaserch reports to agencies and individuals out there, or that it is some sort of rhetoric generating portal. It is neither, Samudaya (not that I speak for it, but from my long association with it I demand to be heard) operates at level which is accessible to most people, like yourself, who would be willing to provide any form (intellectual, academic, monetary ect.) of support for the ongoing struggle and ‘reconstruction’ henceafter. All you need to do is engage at a little more sincere level than what you typically tend to do — bantering comments, accusing samudaya of using rhetoric to garb its one-dimensional aspect. Even if it is — still better than most out there. Dammit!

It would be a mistake to work under the assumption that there is a shortage of intellectuals, or people capable of playing that role, in Nepal itself — despite the lack of “intellectual luxury.” Before I consider using mine, I’d like to see that intellectuals there have the same “luxury.”

In any case, there have been writings here on this site, and several elsewhere, exploring post-conflict ideas coming from the diaspora. However, it must be realized that though democracy shall and will prevail in theory, the current obstacles being fought are very real, which itself is lacking in answers and needs serious work. Think and write all you want about post-conflict Nepal, after all an idea must not be limited by physical distance as far as I’m concerned, and I’m sure there isn’t a single concerned person who isn’t doing it already, but we do not have democracy yet, poeple are dying today and tomorrow, and the present concerns most of us considerably more. Understandably.

I don’t mean to be rude, but I think the question that you need to resolve for your own peace of mind is this:
Do you want to contribute to the movement or do you want to make a noticeable contribution (one that can be directly traced back to you)?

Those obviously are two very different concerns and would dictate your choice of action. If the latter, then yes, anything you say from the sidelines, is likely to be “irreverent b@ching” and relegate you to a “wannabe freedom fighter from the sidelines”..again, that is a choice you make.

I would venture to say that for some of us who post here, we are happy to help in any way, shape or form. For my part, I am only too happy to help in any way I can- whether traceable to me or to a million oters “like” me.

Wow what is happening here? I haven’t been active here for a while but I guess I missed out of alot of action…
Krip:
How excatly do you propose to help out in a way that’s traceable to you specifically? Or Sarahana: what can we do to help out?

Budai Pandit,

To answer your question to me, It was more a thought than a well planned strategy. Were I to make an assertion, I think there are tangible contributions I can make solely by virtue of my education (Law)..again, I am all too cognizant that Nepali lawyers in Nepal- people like Sapana Pradhan Malla are leagues ahead of the game and have made contributions that I can only dream of.

I would be more than happy to help with the ongoing litigations in search of equality for Women and the equality for all irrespective of Race/Caste. My perosnal interest is to help in some way in highlighting the disastrous record of Human Rights and the increasing number of Dissappeared in Nepal. Having said that, do I intend to contribute only if it can be directly traced to me, not at all, but people can have that as the goal if they want to.

My point really was that any contribution, big or small has a role to play in the ongoing movement-what is limiting is the individual’s personal desire for self aggrandizement.

I think there *is* a need to express the fact that we hate the current regime and why. I take the numbers of demonstrators out on the streets in Nepal as evidence that most Nepalis do want democracy restored and the current regime gone, but there are those few who would benefit from a non democratic Nepal who construct arguments in favour of the royal regime. why shouldn’t we provide counter arguments to try and undermine their considerable influence?

Word of the day:

Cluelessness

“There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots”

Rajani:
You might not have all that much work to do. The few people who are still in favor of the Royal regime have only one argument: that the political leaders are no good and will ruin the country again if they are back in power…

Kripa:
Maybe I am thinking too far ahead but you raise an interesting point. Who to blame for all the human rights abuses comitted by the RNA? And if you start prosecuting soilders then people will ask what about prosecuting the Maoist cadres who did unspeakable things.
Perhaps a way out would be a Truth and Reconcilation Commission like the one they had in South Africa. RNA soilders and Maoist can come forward and admit their mistakes and they would be given anmesty…

Again, it has been well evident throughout that individuals resort to fortune cookie wisdom when lacking in sensibility.

GPK:
I remember back in the day you and I would come here and defend King Gyanendra … have your opinions changed since then?

Rajani:
“why shouldn’t we provide counter arguments to try and undermine their considerable influence?”

Because you would be preaching to the choir. At least I’m not interested in having that debate any longer because, even after the current events, if someone needs further logic to question the regime then either they work directly for the palace or they’ve been in a cave. Either way, I see no reason to waste my words. And as I said previously, I see the outcome as a foregone conclusion.

Et al:
…well, point noted. So, without getting stuck on our definition of ‘intellectuals’, I think we can agree that many here are capable of tangible contribution. If on nothing else, just on the experience of living abroad and being part of a working democracy, we can be ‘consultants’ for proper implementation. I don’t think it’s pompous or patronizing to say that we have something to offer because of the privileges we’ve had. So since I lack the courage to be more than a ‘hapless spectator’ and pick up a stone, it may be my compensatory tendency to forego the conflict and prematurely incite the next steps.

And I do consider Samudaya to be a pseudo-‘think tank’ whether it proclaims to be so or not; in my opinion, any open forum where constructive ideas are allowed to flourish and which has proper motivations, be it declared or not, stands to be a fruitful resource. I don’t need the facts, I can get those from the CIA page; I would include many here in my ‘think tank’ if I were to hold one.

Furthermore, I agree with kripa’s assertions- - well sort of…

I do believe we can use the western education for reconstruction, in the literal sense, to build infrastructure necessary for development. But I don’t think this is secondary priority; I believe this holds precedence to any other development.

For a society to develop, the basic necessities must be met first, and it requires an economic infrastructure. All (well many) of the social issues are generated out of desperation, from the disparity between the economically well off and the less fortunate. And our social system was build upon that foundation of exploitation.

To rid of it, you must introduce an equalizer- and economic autonomy is the key. I don’t think passing legislation saying there shall be no more discrimination will actually confront the issue. If you look at the US, why are the perils of the minorities still evident even after all these years of ‘freedom and equality’?

If you think why democracy was such a failure in Nepal, its because there was a suddenly explosion of ‘Intellectuals’ after 1990 trying to extend their own plot-lines… Just look at why there was such a power struggle in the government, this is exactly why … Noone was willing to accept someone else’s authority ‘cause everyone knew what was best to extend their own selfish genes..:)

Just after 1990, I remember folks saying… ” this is bahu-dal, who do you think you are, we also have our people at the top (posts)… ” ..everyone suddenly had power !! WOW !! that’s democracy for you …

When I was little kid, someone I knew used to have stacks of the RED russian-to-nepalis translated books, and he used to say, if the police see this, they would put me in jail.. but after 1990s…. hmmm there were the red books disciples everywhere on the streets and in the government .. I see sense now why these folks should/would have been locked up before ..

I see it everyday.. before 1990 almost all nepali folks were happy to celebrate desain and tihar but now … they say things like.. hey this was forced to us by so and so people.. why should we do this.. Everyone is an ‘Intellectual’ these days …no wonder we are in such a mess ..

Having had some experience of living in muslim-sultan run Brunei, Singapore and UK, and doing a reality check on the third world reality of Nepal, I think we need VERY few ‘Intellectuals’ in Nepal right now and not many…!!

is it cold there, in the cave?

Ummm, I’m not sure what to make of that comment by BC’s friend. So all the ‘intellectuals’, i.e. us, should stay away?

I do agree that we need to upgrade from the ‘intellectuals’ of 1990 to the 2006 version.

Yes, we need room for the new but come on, we have pretty good intellectuals from 1990.

i’m sorry, but I just can’t resist this:
enjoy!
Plato’s allegory of the cave here

Like who?

Umm… didn’t mean to sound so cynical, before y’ll go off on a tangent…

seriously, who can we rely on to represent the people and devise progressive policies?

Like Bhisma Karki, Khagendra Singraula, Shiva Gaunle, to name just a few.

I gave my examples before you posted your second comment. I’m not equating “intellectuals” with those who can “represent the people and devise progressive policies.”

Okay, i’ll take your word for it…

my database of future leaders isn’t quite up to date…

If I may ask, what constitutes an ‘intellectual’ in this sense? What is their claim to fame?

Claim to fame, ha. By the way, I don’t necessarily agree with all of them, but I have either read them, or heard them speak, and know that they’re intellectuals, i.e. someone clearly showing a capacity for understanding and exploring ideas, especially abstract, and often articulating them very well. I’m not too sure about Karki though I know he was a political prisoner and resides in the US. He had some good ideas when I read him last, but I don’t know where he currently stands. Singraula writes (like a thunder!) for Kantipur publications, and Shiva Gaunle is in the FNJ, works for Khabarpatrika, and speaks at protests (like a thunder!). Plus, I also know of many intellectuals who are neither in a cave nor royalists, but choose to support the king given the options.

“If you think why democracy was such a failure in Nepal, its because there was a suddenly explosion of ‘Intellectuals’ after 1990 trying to extend their own plot-lines”

Is it really that simple? I thought it was more to do with sefish leaders who put their own interst ahead of the Nations.

[117 comments, wow…64 New comments when I visited last, and I am left no better off reading them, everyone else has to be a parrot to teach a parrot!…here i go]

Dear Mr RealityCheck:

”To rid of it, you must introduce an equalizer- and economic autonomy is the key. I don’t think passing legislation saying there shall be no more discrimination will actually confront the issue. If you look at the US, why are the perils of the minorities still evident even after all these years of ‘freedom and equality’?”…….thus burped parrot.

Well, you can google economic ‘autonomy’ and ‘infracture’, i do not have time and energy to feed u, after what has been a looong day for me.

In fatigue, I try to write in simple language.
There is no such thing as ‘equaliser’ in economics and no perfect an equation… You shud know it, if u dont, the parrot keeper is an a******e.

And Mr. Check, let me reiterate again, PROGRESSIVE POLICIES/TANGIBLE STUFF that u r dying to hear of and from ‘intellectuals’ in samudaya r right infront of ur textbook…I have volumes…and u can google it urself too. And impending question is of leadership(someone whom u cud repeat) to execute viable economic policies, for that matter all other political/social and other textbook policies that u r fed with.
We can rely on normal people with hands and legs, (look urself in the mirror…do u see an eight legged freak???)…who have certain leadership qualities that u n me tend to idolise…a bunch of such people…selected with scrutiny of the masses!!! and there is no 100% guarantee that whoever u n me rely on wud perform, there will be due diligence on our part when they fail.
If u are still not sure that ur cage is secure enough try and take pleasure on a fancy flight of the wild…or take refuge with samudaya.

Love-fest you say? Hell, this turned out to be one big intellectual orgy. Allow me to jump into it naked. I choose JhalakBahadurKumlagain as my partner. I like his quientessential Nepali name.

First, there is no lack of people who understand Nepal much better than you and I, intellectually, socially, economically, functionally. Take for instance, Dr. Baburam Bhattarai. Now, that dog has done rigorous analysis regarding Nepal’s embedded prejudice — social, political, religious and continues to advocate for many issues that is in par with progressive movements — consequently providing solutions to most of them. Of course, unless you consider reading red literature a democratic blasphemy.

Second, there is this reekingly obnoxious arrogance among Nepali intellectuals in the US and elsewhere, especially academics, regarding those (local activists/intellectuals) that are in Nepal. Any successful policies that gets drawn out need local participation, hence local experience and local know-how is of prime value. I doubt a Nepali intellectual traversing different academic conferences in US and elsewhere can provide any tangible model or outcome to the future development that truly uplift the community and country as a whole.

My 2 cents. Please continue with your orgy…

I must confess at being rather lost on why there is so much emphasis being placed on the presence or lack of “intellectuals”.

I think all(with the obvious exception of Boxcutter’s friend) concur that Democracy needs to be restored and that there is a lot of work that needs to be done in the aftermath - why the need to parse out who is or is not an intellectual? - for me, a moniker holds no legitimacy. As cliched as this may be, an individual’s contribution does not rest on the “intellectual” component (Thank God for small mercies! :-))

R-Check,
again, Yes there is a legitimate and important place for Western education in the reconstruction of Nepal, but, you must see that it needs to be tempered with solutions that make sense/are viable in the Nepali context.

In order to have a reconstruction system that works, it is important to know the history of success/failure and the only way you are likely to achieve success in that realm is being cognizant of local needs/traditions.

As to the basic necessities: In the context of Nepal “basic” needs are health care, access to safe, clean drinking water, a roof over people’s head and even food to feed a family of four so that no one member of the family has to go to sleep hungry-above all, it is the fight and the importance of finding a “leader” with the vision and dedication to get the country back on track so we can hit the ground running and do the work that needs to be done with no time to loose- it’s that basic!

Economic Reconstruction no doubt is on the agenda, but why focus on that at this stage when people are being killed on the streets, children are dying of malnutrition, Nepali women are amongst the most likely to die at child birth etc?…surely, finding solutions to these issues (which ironically is what this bloody 10 year war by the Maoists was apparently supposed to achieve)comes before any high falutin theories on Economic Reconstruction. The same holds true for fighting for equality - as important as that fight is, I believe we need to get the basics taken care of first.

Again, the moniker of “intellectuals” holds no sway for me - I still stand by what I said earlier, the NRN’s and the Intellectuals either in Nepal or outside need to be ready and willing to help, but, the locals in Nepal have to be an integral part of any process geared towards reconstruction of the “Naya Nepal”, failure to do so, for me, is a sign of arrogance on the part of “intellectuals”..and I think the country and her people have had more arrogance than anyone should have to bear!

Dear Everyone,

Lets Unite all Nepali together;
Lets say “No More Monarch in Nepal”
Lets Save our Nation
Lets take gun and shoot king
Lets take gun and shoot all royalits
Lets drag king & his associates in peoples’ court
Lets drag king & his associates in international court
Lets request int’l community to freeze all their personal assets
Lets establish Democracy
Lets vow to root out monarch from Nepal
Lets say Loktantra Jindabad
Lets say Rajtantra Murdabad
Lets say Jai Desh Jai Loktantra

Thanks vijay

The envoy India is sending has his Nepali wife from Rana clan. There will be a great detest if there will be something fishy or saudagiri. All Nepali need to be alert. Gyanendra need to announce Constituent Assembly if he want to remain as King. Otherwise, only God may save him as some SPA leaders said recently.

Would any one like to read my poem?

http://ondemocracy.blogspot.com/

If you do, I hope that you appreciate it. Thank you.

Ian, your view of Nepal is really warped. The “poor” girl you know may not have immediate interest in the ongoing protest, but it is her capability that is being undermined by a bad government and the insurgency. The insurgency must not be prolonged, serious work needs to be done towards its end, which is to say the king’s role must either be modified or removed in being an obstacle to this as well as in supressing free media, the right to assemble, to speak one’s mind, to have public discussions on issuees at hand, to give girls like your friend a decent world to grow up in. To your statement that for you This (disinterested bunch) is Nepal, I say, NO: That is not Nepal, which is why we’ve had an armed insurgency for 10 years, which is why people are out on the streets. Nepalis are not docile beings mythical and cultural, they are also the agency of their own lives. The Nepal I know has had several poor girls killed after being raped by the army, or killed/threatened by Maoists, or denied education and reproductive rights, or shipped to India, or denied citizenship for their children in the absence of the father, and so on. This Nepal has several girls who’d like to change that and are currently out on the street.

Finally, where in the world did you get the idea that what people are demanding is the king’s death? And even if they did, I don’t appreciate your poem because it lacks history, understanding, and any fulfilling representation of where Nepal is at.

What the hell are you rambling about, JhalakB? Why is there always a tone of sarcasm and pretentiousness in some of these people? Why is there a need to sound ‘holier-then-thou’ for some of these ‘intellectuals’? Were you not hugged as a child?

Well some of us weren’t endowed with the inherent knowledge base of some pompous asses here, so we need to read books and google ideas for research. If we spent less time degrading people’s ideas, as there are flaws with each one and none of us (I don’t think) have Ph. Ds in nation building or have ever built one singularly, and more time actually constructively examining imperfections in each other’s analysis, we would all be better off.

I’m not here for some ‘intellectual rendezvous’, so those of you interested in that orgy can bend over and f#*k a parrot. Geez, get over yourselves, this isn’t about you!!!

…anyway, trying to get back to the real discussion - - -

Kripa, I agree that any rebuilding efforts is “likely to achieve success in that realm is being cognizant of local needs/traditions.” I’m sure no one is talking about implanting western-style democracy with no regards to the existing social and cultural emphasis.

As I said before, maybe I’m getting ahead of myself by bring on these issues, since I’m not there throwing stones or getting shot at. My comments should be taken with the pretext that a democratic system would be reestablished. How to cope with the immediate outcome of the struggle and electing a descent leader is undoubtedly in the hands of Nepali people. I’ll go as far as saying that, as a removed population, we don’t have the right to impose any burdening ideas onto people who were the ones doing the fighting. But there will come a time when our “western education” maybe of some use.

Let’s not say ‘western education’ as it inherently implies some connotations; how about dispersing the knowledge we earned thru experience of having lived in a functional democracy. I’m sure we can use that for the right cause.

More specifically, addressing the issues you raised:

‘People killed in the streets’ — Hopefully this won’t be a normal routine in a democratic Nepal.

“children are dying of malnutrition” — The culprit here is the lack of supply and distribution of most basic nutritional needs. How do we solve this? This has to done thru systematic distribution of rations through out the country and finding a feasible option of continuing this effort until a full-fledged transportation infrastructure is built (which will take a while). We can just dumbo-drop food from the helicopter each month and have the locals fight for it. We will need to setup a ‘distribution center’ and have the population manage it. The details of this will entail the skill set, participation and training of the local population. This is economic reconstruction.

“Nepali women are amongst the most likely to die at child birth” — The issue here is lack of education and cultural burden. Obviously the simple answer is lets get them educated. But how can this be done in remote places? Again, we can’t just dumbo-drop pamphlets saying you shouldn’t have a child until the proper age and without proper care. To build educational institutions, even the make shift ones we used see on tv where people gather under the pepal tree, we first need educators from the urban areas to go to the remote villages. For the there has to be an incentive, and accommodations must be provided. It will be gov’t funded and managed. We need to restructure the local economy and introduce a system of exchange with will motivate the farmers to grow different items and ‘trade’. This is economic reconstruction. Of course, there are missing pieces here that need to be assessed. But I’m not exactly an economist or a rural development guru, so I’m sure my logic needs a lot of work. But I think it’s a start.

I have a feeling that ‘economic reconstruction’ is perceived as some grand design to take over the global market and be the next India/china. And that’s not true. I think it’s important to see that every integral part of society is affected by economic undertones.

I thought you were going to jerk off at other portals, obver and over again it brings you back here! hot damn boy, suck it up and say something meaningful.

Let’s hear your ideas or critic mine in a sensible way.

Otherwise enjoy your orgy, I’m don’t f*@k around with your kind.

Sensibe way? Your’s is just blabber, talk about simplyfing shit. You surely rule in that. So give it up and let the locals handle it.

My kind? The whole nepal is my kind, go play around with your theoritical reconstruction shit while we build nepal.

Still no ideas of your own?

‘Simplifying shit’ is exactly how you dissect a bigger problem and handle it in the grassroots level.

You’re a big fan of dr. bhattarai — you should know that was precisely what he was trying to do, until he got fed up and went all medieval on our asses.

I guess my conjecture was correct in saying that certain people are incapable of dialogue unless it involves some sort of obscene and irreverent exchange; must be some masochistic thing with the orgy and all… …whatever

“The whole nepal is my kind” — holy shit, I hope not. Although that would explain the current situation and the failures of the past. Hopefully there are some with real ideas and convictions, and not just ones with abstract thoughts, who have no ideas of their own but readily offer obscene reactions to those who do.

For “trade”, “education” etc..there needs to ROAD to reach the rural places. People have to focus on buiding ROAD before blabbering about other things..

His statements go like this:

‘We need education. We need roads. We need distribution channels’. The typical parrotization of ‘western education’ this oblivious person is touting day in day out.

Repeat after me: ‘I need a reality check, I need to visit Nepal soon, I need to participate and engage with local people before I attempt to destroy their lives by simplyfying shit I learned at a ‘western academy’.

I’d much rather follow a parrot who is regurgitating slogans of successfully implemented democracy, than some pseudo-intellect who thinks nation building is some sort of hobby you do part-time after business hours.

Apparently local people don’t want education, roads or food. Of course, having democracy will magically create all the necessary infrastructure and everyone will live equal, free and happily ever after with no more quarrels.

Nepali people WANT education, roads and food. Those are few of several reasons why they are chanting for democracy. There is always reason for any action. People are not as dumb as you may think.

Critique such simple statements? It is self-evident how little you know about Nepal. Didn’t you mention that you came here long long ago, much before, when Nepal was a peaceful illusion? All we are asking is be a little more contemporary. Read what Nepal IS. Figure what Nepalis want, who live the life everyday, instead of shoving the standard reconstruction rhetoric that you’ve acquired through ‘western education’. Ah, so you are interested in my view, search all over this site for articles/columns and comments. Ok now, let us get academic on your ass, biatch!

in response to kripa you say:

-hopefully this won’t be a normal routine in democratic nepal.

yes, hope is ALL you can provide to people getting killed. that’s your ‘reconstructionR