“Some get held up, kicked at, whacked, and finally arrested.”

Well this is excatly what protestors deserve if they cannot protest peacefully!

How peaceful can you get? Obviously rioting is not warranted, but man you can’t just stand there and not get moved by all this and simply say, whaaa…???!!! I reckon.

You can chant and scream etc. but I don’t think destruction and vandalism of property is warranted even under these circumstances. At the end it will be innocent people whose lives will be affected. The king is going to roll around in his custom made bullet proof Jaguar that cost like a zillion dollars. Besides don’t you remember that infamous video we saw on this website like a few months ago ? That kind of behavior is just not acceptable.

Concise portrayal of otherwise blurry pictures coming out of protests and riots from Nepal. What could one ask for, it has the frivolousness of uninspiring rallys with somber realization from ‘the hero’ himself on other effective ways of active political participation. Where are the pics?

“Later on, a policeman beats up a protester. He is cornered by the crowd and beaten in return.”

[The reporter shouts into his cellphone, “Send a news flash: Human rights workers and journalists specifically targeted.”]

How uncanny, I found the exact same headline here

Nothing new…nothing changes, same old story repeating again and again. Yet you still hope for something better from all these vagueness?

If you don’t know what you want to do, just do anything…maybe it will turn into something worthwhile…someday? That seems to be the motto for everyone these days…

Yes, we hope for something better. We need involvement from people with better ideas.

would it be possible to pursuade the police not to attack?…i remember some protest pictures from Ukraine, or was it Lebanon, the protestors were giving flowers to the police. and there was no provocation from either side…

The impression I get is the police attack a certain number and arrest a certain number as if to fill a quota. After they’ve arrested a few familiar faces, and whacked a few others, they don’t seem to be as stringent unless the crowd is really hostile. The protesters throw bricks as almost a cultural way of forcing the police to break the barriers. But I think it’s uninteresting and ineffective anyway. Giving them flowers is probably a better idea :)

Let’s try it, I pledge $100. Come up with an estimate. If not flowers, how about shel roti?

i pledge too, if it is possible. the people in the police force need democracy, too!

optimist :
What I think the police need (and I think they will agree with me) is to not be slaughtered/bombed by the Maoists!

two big bomb blasts in nepalgunj nearby an army training center

good thing or a bad thing sarahana?

Sanjay:
Are you a Maoist? What kind of a question is that? I hope you were joking.

I was trying to ask sarhana the same question because her leanings are dubious. Somewhere on the website Ms.Sarahana claimed that Maoists are running the show. One has to be either a Maoist, a sympathizer or simply ignorant to make such a bold assertion. I somehow feel that this website subtly promotes the Maoists.

sanjaya, i came to the same conclusion after going through this website. here, people(esp: ms. sarahana who seems to be running this blog ‘almost’ cheering on the news of candidates being killed by maoists, police and army being killed by maoists and then coming out with so much hatred towards security forces for using lathicharge on students who are throwing stones/bricks on the police.

Amateur Alert
Comment removed for lack of interest in general discussion. Also, for pretending to be different people (Sanjay, Rajan Satyal, KaleyKirantiKancha, Nepali999)
-Samudaya Sweeper

The above comments are hilarious - I must say. I often disagree with Sarahana but I don’t think its fair to say she is a Maoist sympathizer.

But hey I totally dislike the comments being edited out. Also isn’t it possible that more than one person uses the same computer and they have different names? Anyway my point is that you should let people say what they want to say. What’s with the censorship?

Damn man, YOUR leanings are highly dubious. How many names do you have to use to simply repeat your stupid accusations.

And Pundit, the reasons are obvious. Baseless personal attacks and ‘lack of interest’ in contributing to the topic is good enough reason for the edit, I think. We have had it before, I have been edited, you have been edited, what’s the big fuss?

can you please “fix” your members section, I cannnot register as a member.

thanks, Khorsani

We are almost finished re-modeling our site. However, some glitches still remain that need fixing. We will be back up and running smoothly in few weeks. We apologize for the inconvenience and appreciate your support. Thank you.

“Yesto taal le ta movement hudaina……..I’m bored. Where is the inspiration?”

waiting for a hero?

“waiting for a hero?” So am I. How about a daku to take on the thieves of Narayanhiti?

I belive Dakus are already trying to take on the Thevies of Narayanhiti - I belive they are known as the “Seven Party Alliance”

man those were the funniest comments i heard in a while, may be you can move them somewhere like before so we can still read them and have fun.

“I belive Dakus are already trying to take on the Thevies of Narayanhiti - I belive they are known as the “Seven Party Alliance” Do you seriously believe that? Poor SPA guys are harmless little ragpickers. Maoists are highwaymen. You need real Gabbars to get rid of royal thieves.

Yes I do seriously belive that! I am not sure where you have been or what you have heard for the last 15 years but your beloved Seven Parties are largly responsible for what is happening now!

Anyway I was just going to comment on the fact that this Bandh is going to help the meaningless polls. Think about it - if there is bhand people are home with nothing to do, it is easier for security to keep order etc. All making it easier for people to walk to the polling booth and vote.
Maoists really went to town with this strategy!

Bhudai Pundit.
I couldn’t agree more. We are dealing with the mess created and left behind by the so called”Alliance.” The term “alliance” reflects narcissism more than anything else. This process is similar to “musical chair.” They’ll run to get those seats and once they’ve acquired it, “the rest of the world can go to hell.” Perhaps this government is not the solution, but there is no tangible benefit to the general populace by replacing one power hungry cabal with another one. The people are screwed one way or the other. We can blather endlessly but the bottom line is - “there is no messiah - Nepal is doomed.”

What’s wrong with being on the side of the Maoists? Sure they are violent and brutal sometimes, but isn’t the RNA?

Frankly, its disgusting to me that people actually support the monarchy — as obsolete, inbred and diseased an instiution as there ever was.

Rohit,
Frankly, it is even more despicable that people like you actually support the Maoist as anachronistic,sanguinary and anti-democratic an institution as there ever existed in our soil.
The Monarchy perhaps is obsolete like you claim to be but that is no reason to eulogize savagery of the Maoists. Unless you’re one??
When has monarchy gone destroying entire towns? when has it coercively recruited under-aged children to fight for its cause ? when in Nepal’s history has it terrorized the populace like the Maoists have? Yes, the institution of monarchy has gotten rich at the expense off the poor, but there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to opt for bullets when the option of ballot was clearly available.

Rohit:
I think the important question here is what the hell is wrong with you?

“Sure they are violent and brutal sometimes”

Oh yea tell that to the hundreds and thousands of kids that have lost their parents, the hundreds of villagers that have been displaced the thousands that continue to live in fear and under coersion that the Moaists are “brutal sometimes”

Frankly your comments are distusting and ill-informed!

…”anachronistic,sanguinary and anti-democratic”…

I say the same about the monarch.

and,

I also say — let me be king, if you’ll let such an individual be king.

“”there is no messiah - Nepal is doomed.” End of all arguments. Arguments require a faith in future. Unfortunately, slavery of over 250 years has turned most of literate Nepalese into human-looking apes looking for bananas from “messiahs”. No wonder monarchists and maoists alike are celebrating. They need animals on two feet to thrive, not human beings.

Parwin:
Maybe I am just stupid but as always I don’t udnerstand what it is you are saying/implying etc.

Wouldn’t we all like to be the King! But since you want it soo bad - Pra-win BEER bick-RUM saw-dave! There you go for a wanna be monarch. Similar to the title conferred on this website earlier to someone else.

Faith in Future?? For a Monarchist. future is a six inch shorter stature for their faith. The Maoists future is destroy the faith and make it non-existent. As for your alliance - “people have lost all faith.” Poreso! its a NOBRAINER!

Maoist’s future is to destroy the faith in monarchy, reliance on one family and dependency on one social class. Faith by definition prevents one to question authorities, accept delusional reality and construct an illusory future. Damn, much good it will do to destroy such faith forever. Not a bad goal to have for Maoists considering the outcome of innumerous decades of mad and drunk governance that have sucked the life-blood of ordinary people. The institution that gets rich off its own population religiously and resorts to massacring its own family in the drunken state for its own selfish fulfillment deserves nothing but stripped off its stolen accolades and sent directly a mental asylum. In your obsession to confer self-constructed titles to others, hear ye’ KKK, I confer on you ‘last of the howling dogs of castle to be sacrificed in the ‘yagya’ of proletariat revolution soon’, just like one of titles conferred to the murderous prince recently.

Man, aren’t revolutions supposed to be packed with heavy doses of revolutionary blabbers? That’s what I thought was happening back home in Nepal. But the article suggests something different. It’s like, “morons! Revolutions are funnier not boring.” Heck yes, its waste of time to watch comics mimicking politicians. Let us all watch it live.

Dude, seriously I am tired of studying. I should burn my books and bring some western imported bricks to aid this heavy revolution. It sounds much fun.

SARAHANA-Thank you for the article.

It takes a revolution to make a solution;
Too much confusion, so much frustration, eh!
I don’t wanna live in the park;
Can’t trust no shadows after dark (shadows after dark), yeah-eh!
So, my friend, I wish that you could see,
Like a bird in the tree, the prisoners must be free, yeah!
Never make a politician grant you a favour;
They will always want to control you forever, eh!

Don’t get excited yet my firend. I don’t see any revolution just yet.

For our seven parties…

“No matter how lackluster you are, you have the potential to be so much less”

It is becoming ever more disturbing to me that the present government is becoming more and more delusional. For example, the government is now making the claim that the economy is on the right track. And of course I don’t have to remind anyone of HM address which was outrageously misleading.

Sorry I didn’t finish….

So while we continue to demonize the parties (and I do believe they are demons) we should not loose too much focus on what a demoractic society means.

UML is oranizationally better than NC. It is a sad state of affair that NC couldn’t lead the country even with so much support. Maoists are significantly better managers, organizers and implementers. Perhaps because they have guns. Policy-wise NC is probably the most sensible, execution/implementation must go to the Moaists. The solution: do not look to change the party policies. Instead, bring leaders into NC who can execute and implement the existing policies (if they have one).

I just read that Prachanda has said that the Moaists are willing to negotiate with the king. Now I don’t know how true this is but the report even says that the Moaists are willing to accept a activ role for the Monarchy if the people desire it. I don’t know how authentic this article is but if it is then this is huge. What do you all think? Mystichacker?

When I told my dad that ‘Prachanda was willing to talk’, he basically asked me ‘aba key chahiyo re tyo chor haru lai?’ I found that so hilarious.

I don’t know man, it all depends on the king. 12-point MOU didn’t do a thing for this guy, I doubt Prachanda proposing to ‘talk’ will any. Kamal Thapa already shoved it off. But this is interesting, given all the violence and protests. Check it out Kantipur Report

BTW doesn’t Prachanda look like he partied hard the previous nite in that picture? Damn, the wars take toll, its been ten years, time to give it a rest and retire from public life commander. It reminds me of one of Garcia Marquez’s novel that I had read ‘No One Writes to the Colonel’. No one recognizes the supremo anymore! Nevertheless, thank you for giving us the romaticism of ‘dictatorship of the prolitariate’.

Referring to Prachanda’s steadfast stand on republican issue and constituent assembly in the interview Rana said, “We have to look at this constitution. Where is the place for a constituent assembly in this constitution?”

what does he mean?

Simple, there is no provision for CA in the current constitution. To get to CA you have to either dissolve the current constitution, which nobody has power to do democratically, neither king, nor leaders, nor people. Or, organize a parliamentary election and have the elected people aim for a CA. That’s what the government’s been prpposing all this time. Hence the announcement of parliamentary election in April 07.

Or, you could have a public referendum and head for the CA. I haven’t studied the current constitution in detail, so forgive me if I have mis-interpreted somewhat.

I stand by my comments that the Maoists are “brutal sometimes”.

The RNA and the armed police have killed many, many more people than the Maoists. That’s an uncontestable fact.

So please spare me the lines about Maoists burning towns and destroying infrastructure. If you’re talking about taking human lives, they’re nowhere in the same league as our armed forces.

Yes, they recruit children. But has anyone been to Western Nepal? Have you seen the conditions that children live in there? Nepal is supposedly the world’s 12th poorest country. Then Western Nepal must surely rank among the top five poorest regions in the world. Against THAT backdrop is a warmongering regime that has crashed the national economy by its senseless focus on winning the war on ‘terrorism’.

Don’t shed your crocodile tears for Nepal’s kids, please. You didn’t care while they were barely getting by, and now this sudden burst of sympathy because they’ve taken up arms!

How much more has the regime spent on its senseless war than the Maoists have destroyed during their infrequent raids.

Oh thats a great logical explaination and philisophy you have Rohit. The kids were barely getting by - so its okay that they take up arms and turn into child soldiers - I am sure that will really help them get by and improve their situation!

I don’t know where you are getting the stats that the RNA has killed more people then the Maoists? I am 100% sure that cannot be true. Even if it is … the Moaists still INTENTIONALLY go out and KILL and terrorize people!! The RNA were in their barracks minding thier own business before this insurgency escalated! I admit that human rights violations by the army is a serious problem - I still cannot agree with your Mao-loving attitute and agree to the outrageous claim that the army is worse then the Maoists!

Also who are you do tell me not to shed crocodile tears for the people who are suffering in this conflict? I am a Nepali and I don’t know how you think but I am genuinely concerned. Just because you have been to Western Nepal doesn’t mean the rest of us cannot sympathize with our fellow countrymen.

Hey its not just this regime that has spent money on the war. The army was mobilized before this ragime came to power. Any regime has an obligation to protect its people from a bunch of blood-thristy communnist thugs!

So why don’t you spare me your one-liners and see for yourself how much brutality, terror and chaos your comrades have inflicted to the people. Now many Western Aid agencies have stopped their work in Western Nepal. The Swiss government in fact recently canceled a huge health project in Western Nepal because of the Moaist situation! Now is the army responsible for that too??? Because of the Moaists Human Development in Nepal has been pushed back by years - education has almost come to a standstill and health care is dwindling. The Western aid agencies were at least running what was left and now thanks to the Moaists (NOT THE RNA) even this stopped! SO PLEASE SPARE ME YOUR Maoist sympathzing lectures. I suggest revisiting the Western Region one more time and this time maybe you can try OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK AROUND!!! Just a suggestion.

I don’t love the Maoists by any means, but I’d prefer to be ruled by them than by a feudal structure that has long overstayed its welcome.

And about Western agencies stopping their work in Western Nepal, I think it has more to do with not wanting to caught in the crossfire than a response to any actual Maoist threats. Yes, Maoists have been blowing up bridges and other assorted infrastructure, and that’s extremely counterproductive, but as I explained, the cost of that is a pittance compared to the cost of fighting the war.

If you don’t believe me, you haven’t been folling the news. An economist declared recently that the state is about to go broke in a few months. With Mr. Shah’s lavish expenditures, plus the daily cost of his misadventures, I, for one, am not surprised.

As for the topic of child soldiers, come on people. Drop the hypocrisy. We have no problem in employing kids five and six years old to do menial jobs. If I was a kid, I’d rather pick up a Kalashnikov than clean someone’s potty.
We are so incensed with the idea of Maoists using child soldiers, but remain mum about little girls ending up in whorehouses in Bombay.

You ever wonder why so many girls are joining the Maoists? WHATEVER you think of their methods, the Maoists have thrown some serious questions about the state of the state.

THAT IS EXCATLY THE PROBLEM - THEIR METHODS!!!

>>>Yes, Maoists have been blowing up bridges and other assorted infrastructure, and that’s extremely counterproductive, but as I explained, the cost of that is a pittance compared to the cost of fighting the war.

There wouldnt be a war if the maoists were not burning, destroying and blowing up things. the fact that the state has turned into a right wing police state partly is a consequence of the maoists and their violence.

>>> And about Western agencies stopping their work in Western Nepal, I think it has more to do with not wanting to caught in the crossfire than a response to any actual Maoist threats.

This is not true. Western agencies are seen as imperialistic by the Maoists. Staff have to give part of their income and projects often have to be conducted according to how the commander wants them to be constructed. Cronyism (feudalism maybe) doesn’t seem to escape the Maoists either.

>> If I was a kid, I’d rather pick up a Kalashnikov than clean someone’s potty.

hmmm.

>>>You ever wonder why so many girls are joining the Maoists? WHATEVER you think of their methods, the Maoists have thrown some serious questions about the state of the state

the fact that someone like rohit now supports the maoist and their militancy is for me an indication of how the left and the social democrats(NC?) in nepal have completely failed and how the maoists have been able to claim a monopoly on revolution. it is our faliure as a community/society that something as antiquated, anarchonistict and defunt as the maoist ideology has been able to usurped claims to progressivism. what a shame. that or rohit is just very misled?

Hey check out this controversial article written by a Nepali student at Harvard University. I think it makes a lot of sense. http://www.nepaleyes.com/read.php?topic=opinion&id=43

There wouldnt be a war.. the maoists and their violence.

You present a cylical argument. There wouldn’t be Maoists born were it not for state’s exclusive representation of its people, a psychological war — whether by the monarchs or the party leaders. Maoists are a result of monarchy-party synthesis, apparently the worst combination, given the lack of integrity and properly guided policies in the state’s part. Maoists fought the parliamentary parties then, they are fighting the monarchy now. Their agenda is consistent. Semi-feudal and corrupt structure is got to go, whether by proposing to talk to the king or by blowing up bridges, doesn’t matter. It is a burden on the counter party to recognize such and act accordingly. There is no reason to doubt the Maoists and their principles. Doubt the king, if that’s a sacrilege, give a shot at the party leadership. Yes, the parties more so than the king.

This is not true. Western agencies are seen as imperialistic by the Maoists.

What are we trying to say here, that we need to forever rely on western aid agencies to develop Nepal? Certainly if Maoists are only seen through the prism of our own biases and prejudices. Otherwise it makes more sense to resolve the issue or at least work to resolve the issues permanently than prolong the process. Aid agencies only patch bandages to a wounded psyche, remedy calls for a more comprehensive approach to development. Maoists have development policies that work better at village and district level. Make use of that.

the fact that someone like rohit now supports the maoist…progressivism. what a shame.

Who are the Maoists in your understanding? It is not Prachandas and Baburams but numerous others who have prescribed to the theory of something better than what is at present. The left doesn’t exist in Nepali politics yet, the social democrats are just words without meaning. The problem is not with people like Rohit, the problem is with leaders that have failed time and again to win the confidence of people like Rohit, whether they be monarchs or party leaders. Maoists created the revolution, they sustained it through years and they are controlling or claiming monopoly over it now. That’s a natural progression to me. Where’s the hiccup? Your claims are relative, all the adjectives you use for Maoists are certainly applicabe to the monarch also, so why should we buy-into your skewed judgement? Perhaps you are mislead by your own definition of the very word progressivism!

>>>you present a cylical argument…
any state by its intrinsic nature is coersive and universalizing. thus the argument that the maoist came about because of the state’s exclusion can never adequately explain their rise. yes, feudalism needs to go, but the most important point is one that you dissmiss so offhandedly: “whether by proposing to talk to the king or by blowing up bridges it doesnt matter”. for better or for worse, it matters to me. besides, are you denying that the rise of the right has been due to the violence of the maoists?

>>western aid agencies to develop Nepal…
no i’m not saying that. and despite your procivity to preach, please save me the sermon on how foreign aid has destroyed nepal. that was not the point. and yes, please give me examples of where the maoist development model has been better than what a democratically elected government could have done. i am willing to concede, but what’s the proof?

>>>>Who are the Maoists in your understanding…
maoists to me are the prachandas and baburams with their jnu degrees. everyone who has dreamed of better has not always taken up a gun nor tried to forcibly establish communes and raise armies nor gone around cruxifying teachers to trees.

>>>the left doesn’t exist in Nepali politics yet, the social democrats are just words without meaning…
have you not read any thing by BP? or did BP not exist? its one thing to say it has been corrupted and these lables don’t work. its something completely different to claim they never existed.

>>Where’s the hiccup?
the hiccup is in the word revolution. i’m not a marxist and my understanding of exploitation doesnt fit into neat marxist categories.

>>>so why should we buy-into your skewed judgement?
no reason to buy into anything. but i’m not the one willing to give a child a Kalashnikov. and as you muddle your way out of your relativistic understanding of everything, let’s just hope there is a nepal to even speak of once you’re through.

“There is no reason to doubt the Maoists and their principles.”

I don’t know man, the Maoist are now saying they are willing to accept an active role for the Monarchy. So much for principle.
Also why do the Maoist never really seem to target the rich people? I hardly ever hear of some rich person’s property or something being attacked by the Maoist. Why is it that only poor villagers are targeted?

“What are we trying to say here, that we need to forever rely on western aid agencies to develop Nepal?”

No Nepal should not relie of Western aid forever. However, until Nepal improves and is able to be self-reliant we are heavily dependant on Western aid. I don’t see anything wrong with that. The moment we have stability and start implementing some good policies I think we will become less reliant on Western aid. We are where we are because of our own doing - can’t blame anyone for the mess.

“Maoists have development policies that work better at village and district level.”

I seriously doubt that the Moaist have this. All they are doing is bringing some law and order by coersion. But in the long term their development model is suspect.

50 years of political struggle in one way or the other have led to 12 years of mismanaged country. Countless years or absolute rule have lead to institutionalized prejudices towards other parts of Nepal. Those ‘other’ parts have forever remained a fertile ground for either the ready acceptance of status quo, or the natural revolt against the status quo. The Panchayati system fed into the former, the Maoists feed in to the latter. The grievances were always there, one needed to only scratch the layer of wound to see how deep it went. Panchayati system put band-aids; Maoists took them out and showed them the true wound. Thus, Maoists are nothing but the symbol of those timeless grievances. Prachandas and Baburams are nothing but conduits of such grievances. Vanquish the Maoists (your definition), you crush the symbol, the core-reality will still survive, giving birth to another system, perhaps more violent, in a vicious cycle that would only take the country down the path of civil war.

The western idea of political right and left are like clubs you go to after work to sweat it out and socialize, or a fad that you pick along the way. It is redundant in Nepal’s case. The country is ruled by an absolute monarch, where’s the room for different political ideologies? Perhaps when we have genuine parties/parliament can we begin to discuss what it means to be on the either side of ‘cerebral cortex’?

Democratically elected government not only had a flawed development model, but, the funding that came for whatever system of development went straight to building houses in Kathmandu and buying Pajeros for the leaders. Enormous amount of aid poured-in after 1990, what did the country get, and by country I mean those outside of political arena and those outside of geographical Kathmandu. Any system of economic development is better than a corrupt system. One need not preach for such. It is but a foregone conclusion.

Besides, Maoists have always advocated for a decentralized system of economic development, focusing in agriculture and cottage industries that empower the local communities. In a country where 81% of people are engaged in agriculture, economic development focusing anywhere else is a flawed model. The democratic parties did such, they took away resources from agriculture and put them into mid-size and heavy industries, leaving the major portion of population worse off than before.

At least the Panchayati model looked to promote cottage industries; the democratic government came rampaging in and killed ‘em all. Whatever exports Nepal had managed to claim lost its place because of fraudulent quality control. Quality compromised, exports stopped, industries went bankrupt, people left with nowhere to go but abroad, as cooks and laborers. How is that a working economic model? One that sends it own population migrating elsewhere for basic sustenance?

Ah, the BP salvation. Show me a political leader who follows BP’s ideology today and I’ll show you a democratically elected utopian Nepal. The moment is now, what do we have to work with now? It is useless to dwell in the past if you do not posses the faculty—intellectual, ethical and moral to revive and salvage what was implicitly good then. But, if you do, by all means put it out there. Not just rants on blogs.

Fair enough. You despise ‘revolution’; I despise institutionalized prejudices and incompetence.

An eight year old is a child; a sixteen year old is a teenager. Nonetheless, the conditions that arise for a sixteen year old to pick up a gun are quite incomprehensible from the comfort of our existence. At best you are making assumptions, and they originate from nowhere but your implicit understanding of events, colored by your own experience of growing up without having to face insurmountable difficulties.

Yes, indeed the burden of privilege is something that not just me, but everyone talking here has to deal with. fair enough that I know nothing of the difficulties that makes a 16 year old take up a gun or for that matter, what part of that decision is a choice and what part institutionalized exploitation. And also for that matter I know nothing of the difficulties/problems that causes someone to take their own life. But lest you forgot, we perceive the world through our own shifting frames of references that attach values and meanings to the world around us. I can make attempts to understand the opposite story, but I will never be able to contextualize it completely in the name of relativity.

Again, you’re looking at the whole thing from a Marxist perspective of suffering. I’m not. That’s the big difference.

And again, we didn’t need the Maoists to rip open our wounds. With enough social capital and resilience, any society is capable of adapting to change. We did not have to let the wound fester for so long. Besides, we’re dealing in hyperboles when we say that if not the Maoists, another monster would have reared its ugly head. We simply don’t know.

I agree that the western ideas of right and left do not hold. Yet you are too harsh on history. And you dismiss too easily. Ok the BP salvation has not worked, but don’t deny his existence or other political thinkers. There does exist a culture of politics that all this has been built on after all hoina ta? And blaming the failure of “development” no corruption of the politicians alone may sound good within the confines of the World Bank, but we can do better. Corruption severely delegitamizes, but surely there are other problems with the development model that we followed.

I do not fully buy your argument that resources moved from agriculture to industries. As far as I know, a large part of “development” in Nepal was on agriculture. A look at previous budgets may confirm this. Besides, isn’t decentralization, empowerment of local communities through cottage industries and the likes also the big donor driven neo liberal mantra? The Maoists maybe be better at it but they are not engaged in trying to re-imagine the development space in Nepal. Nor would I trust them to.

But ok, enough ranting on blogs. Adieu.

Fine, revolution has a bad connotation itself, but the conceptual basis of any change rests in a form of revolution, one way or the other. Go ahead; slap me a Marxist label again!

Suffering, by definition arises out of sheer necessity to fulfill basis needs. In the process of identifying the source of suffering, it can either be an individual adventure or a collective effort. Individualism invoked to suppress the collective is naturally incoherent. That is what we find universally perpetuated in modern times. Fell free to slap another of your labels.

The definition of ‘we’ is debatable. Again, Maoists did not necessarily originate out of ‘our’ desires or lack there of. It was the call of a specific time and particular place, combine that—the natural conditions that led to its creation, hence managed to survive for better or worse. No, you misunderstand me. I am neither presenting hyperboles nor justifications. I am proposing acceptance—change in the face of our rigid system.

Yes, in Panchayati times large part of development was on agriculture. However, post 1990 the sector saw huge declines in fund-flow into agriculture. The previous budgets (post 2002 I think) have increased agricultural spending, but I am talking about times before that. ‘Neo-liberalism’ or ‘post-constructionist’, the socio-economic reality compel us to nurture the sector; geographic and demographic challenges oblige us to implement the ‘mantra’.

-ciao!

Pundit, I am not ignoring you. I presumed the above post naturally answered your questions.

your marxist lable was/is limited to this and this alone:

“Suffering, by definition arises out of sheer necessity to fulfill basis needs.”

the rest of your arguments seem to follow this.

Ha, the critique of dialectical reasoning him/herself seems to be overpowered by the need to compartmentalize theories and reduce everything to Marx versus the rest of the world.

We are getting some great arguments here. It appears that some sort of consensus has been reached that Maoists are not merely bloodthirsty brutes, but arose because of the suffering of the people and Kathmandu’s uncaring attitude.

At least X is honest in stating that he really doesn’t know why a kid would pick up a gun. It may of course be “institutionalized exploitation”, as he says. However, it seems to me ( speaking as a member of ‘the elite’ classes ) that exploitation is so ingrained in our culture that it is hard to draw lines and say this or that crosses ‘acceptable’ boundaries. Can anyone here say that he has not seen servants, kids, treated badly enough to make his blood boil? I know I have, and I’ve
done nothing about it so I don’t think
I should feel very righteous about 16 year olds taking up arms. ‘Bahun’ kids
hunched over chulos and inhaling toxic smoke, tharu kids carrying backbreaking loads, ( strong as oxen, those Tharus I’ve heard being said ), I’ve seen all that and said to myself, well, yes, they should be in school, but such is life in the 3rd world. I should be happy I was fortunate enough never to have to do things like that.

What I’m trying to say is that things have been going on for too long, and surely, a phenomenon like Maoism had to come into the country. Of course, we can’t blame The Chairman all the time, but he’s such a horrible symbol of the old order that he’s naturally first on my list of villains. If he hadn’t taken those useless (and expensive) African trips at a time of crisis, I might not have been so harsh, but….

As for Prachanda and Baburam, I have mixed feelings. Yes, they started a war, but something like that had to happen. Look, it is highly unfortunate that we have neighbors like Bihar, Uttar Pradesh and Bengal, and on the north we have China. Maoism was born in China, Naxalism in Bengal, and it is practised especially well in Bihar (and has, for a long time). There is no way we could have escaped Maoism. Therefore, I think it would be wise to negotiate with Prachanda and Co. while we still can.

And that’s my final two cents worth of advice. Hopefully.

hacker,
even if you dont like it, your understanding of suffering is quite marxist.
tell me how i’ve “compartmentalized theories” by saying what i think to be self evident. and since we are debating at the realm of ideas, it makes sense to root myself to debates that are already going on and debates that have been going on for a while. i’m not sprouting this off my ass. neither are you. best put it in context.

rohit,
if we can not escape marxism, we cant escape capitalism either. look at what’s happening to india and china. might as well learn to live with that version of reality as well. and the question for me is a little beyound my feelings of “righteousness”.

What the hell is ‘quite marxist’? Especially, in the context of Nepal how is it not all, if not most of conflicts reduceable to class and economic struggle? Seriously, I’d like to hear your argument. That is what I don’t like about you labeling my arguments as Marxist, on presumptions, without really presenting your end of the bargain, not otherwise. Yes, lets put it in context and hear your definition of suffering and struggle in Nepali framework.

my! arent we touchy.
dont have much time now. will so do later.

Provoking the nepali police force can be fun huh? Hope you had a good day. More plz more :)

Next time I really want to hear your first hand account of how it really feels to be stuck on the head with a baton … :)

Anyway, the more we see this kinda sights in Nepal, we know we are making progress … :)

Ok, I said I wouldn’t, but here’s something further that I would just like to add ( I promise this will be the last, and I’ll make it short and hopefully sweet) :

China may appear to be going capitalistic, but you have to take into account that there is much disparity between the prosperous, urban coast and the rural interior. We don’t hear of agitations and the like, but that’s only because the Chinese keep their press muzzled.

As for India, COMMUNISTS are in (partly) power now. Need I say anything more?

I have nothing against capitalism. A country needs to be capitalisic (to a certain extent) to be developed. Even old man Marx understood that.

Rohit:
I am not debating how or why the Maoist movement started or whether it is a justified movement. I fully agree with you that since the creation of Nepal all our rulers have been Kathmandu-centric and have socially and economically marginalized the rest of the country.
However, even though I understand why the Maoist movement, it cannot justify their means. On an ideological level the Maoist platform might seem credible. However, the means by which the Maoists have chosen to advance their agenda is deplorable and unacceptable! The whole Maoist movement has escalated into a very bloody and deadly conflict that has affected the lives of thousands of people especially in rural Nepal.

Fine the Maoist movement had a justifiable beginning but why blow up buildings, kidnap school children, murder teachers and blow up infrastructure? Since the movement started the majority of the people that have borne the most are the poor rural villagers. People in Kathmandu, for the most part, are still not affected. International aid agencies have stopped their work in the rural parts not in Kathmandu.
Why don’t the Maoists target specific targets that belong to the rich and aristocracy? But all I ever seem to hear is how a bridge was blown up or how schools have been shut.

Also when you say look at the cost of the war and say its more than what the Maoists have blown up you are not thinking properly. Think about the lost revenues from tourism, think about the human development cost. Thousands of people have been displaced from their homes in the villages and thousands have lost their bread winners. Kids have been exposed to brutality and their education has gone down the drain. Do you know how much it is going to cost to rehabilitate these people? Since the Maoists movement started life for people in the rural areas has been far WORSE. Meanwhile in Kathmandu there is no shortage of Pajeros and outrageously expensive wedding parties.
So even though I understand why the movement started on a theoretical level I still see the Maoists as being nothing short of blood thirsty brutes!

“After the protest, we meet up with Gagan Thapa. “Four years of brick-throwing”, he reflects, “and nothing has progressed. I’ve realized that giving two speeches is more effective than two days of rioting.””

Perhaps there is a need for a rethink. The eight student organizations should rethink the street protests.

man those things that pandit said are exactly the things i want to scream into baburams ear before i throttle him, keep all your bookish ideas away and look at it in the most basic form, people are killing each other for nothing.

after going through much self doubt and consternation, i have to admit, my sticking the marxist lable on you, MH, was uncalled for. my sincere appologies.

nevertheless, i’m only trying to think through my ideas about class. economic realities about production and consumption and access to resources often dominates all understanding of suffering. such an understanding for me is marxist, becasue that’s what he said — the history of society is the class struggle. and he’s right, there is no beating around the bush. i was only talking about the analytical marx. it is useful to break down marx as the analyst and the presciptive theorist.
yet, the idea of class, in terms of modes of production and access to capital, for me is problematic because it is too rigid.

thus other people who think of class as a lived experience, as something deeply personal and not as rigidly structural as marxist analysis says it to be, make more sense to me. if there is material suffering, there is also deep emotional and cultural suffering which do not fit neatly into economic class analysis. who are the elite and who are the oppressed, when power manifests itself not in neat categories of black and white but it horrible pervasive and hidden- in effect, omnipresent ways.

but there seems something perverse with the idea of “relative suffering” as well. how dare we equate the suffering of a bonded labourer with the sufferings of a middle class man who has to go through all kinds of shit to make a living and raise his family for example. in the macro picture, the labourer suffers hell of a lot more.
i have a hard time reconciling this difference. (i might not have put it very convincingly but that’s my problem. )

material suffering seems fundamental to nepal, yet there is this kind of ordinary suffering that is not always caputred by the media or by other outlets we get to read. and its hard to see unless you go looking for it. yet without it, the picture of reality seems incomplete.

among other things the maoists got totally wrong (and they did get a lot of things wrong) is their blind focus that the source of fedualism(or explotiation) lies solely in the institution of the monarchy (which it no doubt is). unfortunatly, there are many manifestations of feudalism that even the complete removal of the monarchy and setting up of their “progressive” system would never solve may even exasberate.

Let this not be another Marx vs Derrida debate. Too academic for my taste personally, but theoretically, I confess, I love them both, though that may be the queerest and blasphemous think to say. But I get the gist. Will respond accordingly.

no, I wasnt really thinking of Derrida. he’s a little too thick for my liking. Weber or Bourdieu maybe…

I personally cannot think of any other approach to view and understand the Marxist definition than through Marxism—reduction of conflicts to class struggle. Jane Austen’s eighteenth-nineteenth century Europe was a rigid structure, how could the old man with long white beard himself escape or transcend the realities of his time which influenced him to produce his theories in the first place? He couldn’t! What I mean is, the problem of class structure in eighteenth-nineteenth century Europe enabled him to create Marxism; else there would not be any such theories. Hence there is a natural, dialectical understanding between class-struggle-suffering- revolution- emancipation. There is no escaping that, I don’t think

Such is seemingly the case because I think there is a constant procedural social shift or ‘revolution’ at micro level. And when additional criteria is added such as caste and ethnicity, the greater ‘class’ theory turns vague which then becomes more difficult to manage, I think. Hence people who generally see class stratification as unacceptable naturally resort to Marx’s definition because it is more manageable and widely encompassing, perhaps. But, you are correct in questioning its beginning and the end, especially in modern sense, in Nepali context.

However, unlike the generic European proletariat experience of class struggle, the subcontinent had to go through an additional phase—colonial subjugation. Like you mentioned, the theory of cultural and emotional suffering become more prominent and pronounced post ‘independence’, which consequently gets thrown into the fore-front of social theories that beg for attention. But, I am skeptical of that. I think such are tools of fairly ‘lucky’ few who have managed to traverse their native-foreign culture dichotomy and lived to write about their own experience. Most post-colonialists fall in this category. Who are they representing besides themselves—product of once unapologetic structure that cannot but appear to be apologetic in all its form now?

The ‘ordinary suffering’ you mention sounds more like the suffering of being born a damn Nepali in every sense of the word. This is the extension, and goes more in depth to your ‘cultural-emotional’ suffering position, if I understand correctly. Sort of like the Sisyphus story. But, the ‘ordinary suffering’ is much general and universal I think, though it could be more applicable to Nepal because we are able to emotionally FEEL it somehow?

I don’t know who Maoists are really. They talk about feudalism as if there still remain lords that control the general economy of the state, well, besides the king. Perhaps, that’s why their cries were not heard by the ‘middle-class’, as Prachanda so bluntly put in one of his earlier interviews. Peasant revolutions normally start with land/agrarian reforms, for which no communist revolution is necessary, only a sincere and working government is. However, I agree with Maoists that there needs to be a parallel system similar to that of Mao’s Cultural Revolution, at least in agricultural/agrarian reforms and development, without which Nepal cannot dig itself out of that economic hole.

this is a test comment.